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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 5:42 PM   
karel47



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Status: offline 		not realy thruth iposter, you can buy the sherman of tamiya on 400 euro's or less brand new here thats 530 dollars , the king tiger and tiger goes from 450 euro's it depends strongly on what shop you buy ... here in aalst was sold two years ago in an belgian rc shop for 999 euro's , so i buy my tanks in germany at less then half price, even the pershing is aviable for 450 euro's or 620dollars here
the new heng longs goes over the 200 euro depending on wich version you buy ... take some upgrades and you are on 400 euro too 
quality costs, also treu in cars you can buy a lada or a volvo its the same isseu, its normaly expensiver kits are better in allday use ... reliable ... its all on the price 
no offends to HL owners , i stick with tamiya have about 21 of them now ... build and no problems so far , some are 15 years old even the clutch ones are well designed


i will gladly sell my tamiya tanks for 1000 dollar to you , then i can stop working at least 


quote:

ORIGINAL: lposter


quote:

ORIGINAL: tomhugill

Firstly a Tamiya isn't $1000 unless its a leopard. Second even impact tracks (arguably the best) are $130-140 tops. So that's one thing. 

 
I have the leopard and the only issue I had was with the idler adjusters not having fine adjustments possible. Fixed with a £30 upgrade. People who crack the suspension arms tend to have them screwed in too tight. My Leo runs great on all surfaces, has the best Tamiya sounds, nifty lighting etc. Also you can rebuild the entire tu for £20. Worst case scenario. I can understand the gripes on the plastic components on such an expensive kit, but it's also the biggest and has the bed power to weight which gives it excellent handling.



Im afraidf you are wrong there Tom...

AS I said, at mark-1-tank, Tamiya kits are 635 pounds sterling. http://www.mark-1-tank.co.uk/tamiya-radio-controlled-tank-kits.html

That is, as of today, 991.76 dollars. So on that, you are wrong as I specifically said I was at Mark-1 tanks. At the same site, metal tarcks for these kits are 145 pounds which is about 220 dollars. So you are in error again. The leopard is actually 770 pounds or 1200 dollars.

AT Tank zone, the Tamiya kits are are  649 pounds or over 1000 dollars. As an example:  http://www.tankzone.co.uk/cart/tamiya_16.htm

Metal tracks are 129.99 http://www.tankzone.co.uk/cart/tam_t1.htm  which is 204 dollars. that's calculated 175 dollar : not 204 as you stated





So...to sum up, contrary to what you assert, tamiya kits are 1000 dollars from two of teh larger retailers in the UK:

Tracks for them are in excess of 200 dolars.

And I havent counted VAT or postage.

P






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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 6:03 PM   
lposter


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry karel

Before you infer I am lying ...... be careful. The prices I showed, with links, were 100% correct for the places I showed...two of the best known UK dealers.

Outside of UK I never said anything. I have no idea about europe but it seems to me that Heng Long and derivatives are more popular in Europe than the US. Probably because of teh exorbitant prices.


As I have to buy from outside of Norway and usually use the bigger dealers as the support is better......I am looking at about 1000 dollars for a Tamiya.

p

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 6:08 PM   
Panther F



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quote:

ORIGINAL: lposter

Sorry karel

Before you infer I am lying ...... be careful. The prices I showed, with links, were 100% correct for the places I showed...two of the best known UK dealers.

Outside of UK I never said anything. I have no idea about europe but it seems to me that Heng Long and derivatives are more popular in Europe than the US. Probably because of teh exorbitant prices.


As I have to buy from outside of Norway and usually use the bigger dealers as the support is better......I am looking at about 1000 dollars for a Tamiya.

p





You're the one who should be careful. You are always putting words in other peoples mouth... "lying and criticism".

They are just voiced opinions and you should get used to it.

This is where these types of threads usually end up... in a huge pissing match.














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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 6:21 PM   
lposter


 

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Status: offline 		No offence there Panther F but....

""not realy thruth iposter""  and ""Firstly a Tamiya isn't $1000 unless its a leopard."" in reply to me saying it was (a point I proved with evidence) are not opinions....the first is an accusation of an untruth, the second is an attempt to contradict a backed up statement.

So....no words being put in mouths. Just what people type.

And I dont get used to people either stating or inferring that I aint telling the truth especially when I back up the assertions I make with evidence.

get used to that yourself.

p



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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 6:24 PM   
Panther F



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quote:

ORIGINAL: lposter

No offence there Panther F but....

''''not realy thruth iposter''''  and ''''Firstly a Tamiya isn't $1000 unless its a leopard.'''' in reply to me saying it was (a point I proved with evidence) are not opinions....the first is an accusation of an untruth, the second is an attempt to contradict a backed up statement.

So....no words being put in mouths. Just what people type.

And I dont get used to people either stating or inferring that I aint telling the truth especially when I back up the assertions I make with evidence.

get used to that yourself.

p






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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 6:24 PM   
Ronan87


 

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Status: offline 		I'm with lposter on this one.

Yesterday i saw a Tamiya Pershing for sale. With taxes almost $1000...


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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 6:31 PM   
lposter


 

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quote:

I am used to it as I'm not as new around here as you are.


I'd respond to that but as it makes no sense and is indicative of perhaps being around here a little too long.....I wont bother.

The assertion stands.....Tamiya tanks on this side of the pond are, it would appear, generally more expensive that stateside.

perhaps thats the reason that the aftermarket market in other makers tanks is so much wider in Europe than in the US..

Assuming it is true to conclude that there is a price disparity (in relation to the major dealers) then perhaps it is impossible to draw a conclusion on the matter of relevancy  given that the discussion has two different foundations.

p



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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 7:09 PM   
YHR



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Status: offline 		I think a person has to look at the market today vs 6 years ago. A lot has changed. HL are better than they were, and Tamiya are more money.

Way more third party suppliers around too. Many option for electronics that are as good or better then Tamiya for less.

The $80 clark board, and to a lessor degree a $60 RTR DBC3 are a real game changers in that regard.

Being that I sell a third party electronics, my opinion is bias towards the less expensive HL. Why. Because I believe the sound system I sell is superior to Tamiya so paying a premium for electronics that I personally am not going to use doesn't make much sense. I will buy the cheaper tanks, and spend the equivilent of a Tamiya to upgrade it and get it performing at a level of Tamiya, and sounding better. That is my mod of operation. others will vary.

Currently I am leaning heavily on what Mato is doing in metal. Their PZIII is good, and less costly then a Tamiya kit. The Sherman metal upgrade suspension is good They have an ambitous program for the future. If it comes true, then I will be Buying Mato metal tanks and stuffing in the electronics of my choice.

I wish Tamiya would change gears just slightly, and offer kits with or without electonics. I had no trouble taking the Leopard A1, and turning it into a good sounding , good operating tank for less then they want for the IS-2. I bought that kit, but I probably won't buy the IS2. My hope is money talks, and if Tamiya see that the sales numbers on $400 kits are way better then $1000 F.O tanks that they start making more RC ready tanks at the lower entry point.

< Message edited by YHR -- 1/31/2013 11:23 PM >

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 8:34 PM   
Rebellion13



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Status: offline 		I agree with you Dan, the DBC/Benedini combo and the Clark board have great sounds. I have thought of buying tamiyas and replacing the innards with one of those.....just to save some cash, but I am too lazy to sell off the tam elec's. I would love to pick up a Tammy Pershing upper/lower for less then 200 and add a pkg of my choice.

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 8:36 PM   
Rebellion13



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Status: offline 		And I just thought this is kinda funny. People by HL's and add tamiya electronics and I want to do the opposite

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 9:15 PM   
Chris Nicastro


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff489

quote:

I'm selling my new Tiger full option kit and I cant get half of what its worth

To the OP, Tamiya Tiger 1 kits sell new at hobby shops for $675.00.  I think you could have gotten more than 1/2 of that price for your Tiger 1 kit from nearly anyone on this forum.



You would think so but I posted it for $400 and not one person showed interest. Im not going any lower thats just ridiculous. Id rather keep it and eventually build it. Thats what prompted me to pose the question for this thread, whats the state of the market and interest.

Good conversation so far guys. So the general consensus so far is that Tamiya tanks are regarded as the yard stick of general quality and performance, I would agree with that. The caveat to that is there are some models with issues but in general the mechs are stable.
So their relevance in the market is their level of engineering and reliability and for that of course you pay a premium. My concern was more about the impact of the Chinese tanks on the market value of Tamiya tanks. But if they require so much work to bring them up to a respectable level then that makes all the difference in many ways. That basically answers my question. You can see how in a niche segment like tanks how difficult it can be for a new customer to make an informed purchase.

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 9:18 PM   
tomhugill


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: lposter


quote:

ORIGINAL: tomhugill

Firstly a Tamiya isn't $1000 unless its a leopard. Second even impact tracks (arguably the best) are $130-140 tops. So that's one thing. 

 
I have the leopard and the only issue I had was with the idler adjusters not having fine adjustments possible. Fixed with a £30 upgrade. People who crack the suspension arms tend to have them screwed in too tight. My Leo runs great on all surfaces, has the best Tamiya sounds, nifty lighting etc. Also you can rebuild the entire tu for £20. Worst case scenario. I can understand the gripes on the plastic components on such an expensive kit, but it's also the biggest and has the bed power to weight which gives it excellent handling.



Im afraidf you are wrong there Tom...

AS I said, at mark-1-tank, Tamiya kits are 635 pounds sterling. http://www.mark-1-tank.co.uk/tamiya-radio-controlled-tank-kits.html

That is, as of today, 991.76 dollars. So on that, you are wrong as I specifically said I was at Mark-1 tanks. At the same site, metal tarcks for these kits are 145 pounds which is about 220 dollars. So you are in error again. The leopard is actually 770 pounds or 1200 dollars.

AT Tank zone, the Tamiya kits are are  649 pounds or over 1000 dollars. As an example:  http://www.tankzone.co.uk/cart/tamiya_16.htm

Metal tracks are 129.99 http://www.tankzone.co.uk/cart/tam_t1.htm  which is 204 dollars.



So...to sum up, contrary to what you assert, tamiya kits are 1000 dollars from two of teh larger retailers in the UK:

Tracks for them are in excess of 200 dolars.

And I havent counted VAT or postage.

P




First off check this site, no tamiya over a grand:  http://shop.aaftankmuseum.com/searchresults.asp?cat=1838

You cant prove a point by finding expensive retailers, it doesnt work. Check tank zone properly the tiger and king tiger and sherm are under £500 which is under $1000. Also if your going to use US currency check a US site like the AAF musem which gives good prices. 

Again using tankzone which is one of the most expensive shops for parts is not helping, go to mitosal.com and see more reasonable prices for tracks. The Leo2 tracks are the most expensive and well under $200 


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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 9:25 PM   
Panther F



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rebellion13

And I just thought this is kinda funny. People buy HL's and add tamiya electronics and I want to do the opposite



Well, for me it's easier (not less expensive) to get the correct Tamiya electronics, plug and play and be Tamiya compatible if I wanted to add a battle system.

Some of those systems seem like a witch hunt getting the right sounds and plugging it into the right board... this way it's all set.


And yes... I will have some HLs and other tanks set up without Tamiya gear, but my first target is that way.














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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 9:32 PM   
ausf



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris Nicastro

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeff489

quote:

I'm selling my new Tiger full option kit and I cant get half of what its worth

To the OP, Tamiya Tiger 1 kits sell new at hobby shops for $675.00.  I think you could have gotten more than 1/2 of that price for your Tiger 1 kit from nearly anyone on this forum.



You would think so but I posted it for $400 and not one person showed interest. Im not going any lower thats just ridiculous. Id rather keep it and eventually build it. Thats what prompted me to pose the question for this thread, whats the state of the market and interest.

Good conversation so far guys. So the general consensus so far is that Tamiya tanks are regarded as the yard stick of general quality and performance, I would agree with that. The caveat to that is there are some models with issues but in general the mechs are stable.
So their relevance in the market is their level of engineering and reliability and for that of course you pay a premium. My concern was more about the impact of the Chinese tanks on the market value of Tamiya tanks. But if they require so much work to bring them up to a respectable level then that makes all the difference in many ways. That basically answers my question. You can see how in a niche segment like tanks how difficult it can be for a new customer to make an informed purchase.



I didn't see it, but if I didn't have 3 HL conversions on the shelf no time for them, I'd be all over it. I still might...

Is it all still in the box, unbuilt? What number, 56010?

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 9:37 PM   
lposter


 

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Your logic is flawed.

Nr: 1 that site you show indicates that list price (ie. the price you can normally expect to pay)  for most tamiya is over 1000 dollars.

Nr: 2. I didnt pick two expensive retailers. I picked one large well known and one well known. I even flicked through ebay.co.uk...not many tamiya (a 1977 model is there for anyone interested in relics).

Nr 3: Im using dollars as they are a good baseline. Its a valid thing to do and exchange rates are not hocus pocus.

Nr. 4. And this is the kicker.....why would I shop at any US site? or shop? Why would i do that dances? The dance being the one that starts with (from AAF) "However presently international orders must contact museum to place order.  Presently we ship to over 20 countries." (hope NOrway is on the list!!!) , continues with some exorbitant rate for shipping, progresses through a few weeks waiting time, then enters a few weeks at customs, exchanges of paperwork, phone calls etc, and finishes off with a 25% import tax, a paperwork fee related to the value of the item ordered and a flat fee for the pleasure of having being rightly screwed by the same guys at customs.

And if anything is wrong with an order from teh US........ even if its Tamiya and the AAFs legendary service.... I have to go back to the customs, fill out all the forms, post it, wait weeks, and on its return, if I cannot document its having being "Repaired"... I pay all the taxes again if its a replacement as its now a new item.

Ive done this dance and it aint funny.....

How is that a good idea? Or even economical?

There is no point saying to me "You can get Tamiya for x, y or z dolars" when it transpires that:

1. Its some place in the US,

2. By the time taxes are added with shipping its a crazy price,

3. or you are just referring to one specific tank like a sherman or something.

I know I can get ALL tanks from other makes at a reasonable price from somewhere nearer home.

NOt just some Sherman or other model that the shop knocks down in price because it cannot shift it.....


p



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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 9:38 PM   
ksoc



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Status: online 		MacGyver would buy a Heng Long (Matoro, etc). While these tanks have gotten better (I really like the all metal Sherman VVSS suspension) they still have issues. On my relatively new Matoro Sherman, just removing the top to inspect the inside - one of the Speaker Stays was broken in transit, and one of the Speaker Wire solder connections broke. Fun, inexpesnsive tanks, but you better bring your modeling and mofiying skill - also a soldering iron

Tamiya tanks cost more, but if you can follow the instructions, it can be constructed right out of the box with some basic modeling skills (no soldering required!). I assembled my box stock Sherman and Tiger I in less than two weeks. Xacto knife. screw driver, glue, rattle can paint, and RC gear was about all it took. Had not discovered this forum or found a tank group. Since you built it per instruction, it also easier to understand how to disassemble to repair.

As for cost, you have to shop around. Some shops in the States sell them for close to retail. The AAF museum shop has the Sherman for $500 US and the Tiger I for $597 US ($46 shipping in the US)

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 9:50 PM   
lposter


 

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Status: offline 		Having had my interest piqued and finding no official dealer for Tamiya in NOrway, the nearest I could find was Denmark who could provide prices in NOK.

Right now they are having a sale!  http://no.midhobby.dk/produkter-no/192-tanks-rc/

Metal Tracks for Tiger 1 - http://no.midhobby.dk/produkter-no/192-tanks-rc/12983-tamiya-116-tiger-i-die-cast-tracks/   - 1347 NOK = 240 US (even though I have been assured that th emost expensive tracks are only 150 US!)

Panzer IV   -    http://no.midhobby.dk/produkter-no/192-tanks-rc/12988-tamiya-rc-panzer-iv-j/   - no electronics, no radio, no battery -   normal price 5273 NOK (980 US), sale price 4639  NOK ( 850 US)

Super Sherman    http://no.midhobby.dk/produkter-no/192-tanks-rc/12725-tamiya-116-kampvogn-super-sherman-m51/ - as above    - no sale price, 4917 NOK (900 US).

Note that none of their tanks come with anything other than a sound module and the tank!

Or any of the other doodahs that people invariably add to tamiya tanks so they wont look like yet another tamiya tank.....

p

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 9:58 PM   
Ronan87


 

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Status: offline 		Lposter your Norway custom sounds like my experience with Quebec Canada custom.

They charge you taxes, import taxes, import fee and then the courtier charges you a s&h fee LOL


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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 10:02 PM   
lposter


 

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Status: offline 		Well I hope the Canadian customs guys dont have the Norwegian habit of kicking your package around the storeroom on their lunch break.........or forgetting to send the notice of its having being impounded and then just returning the packet to sender. Then sending you the bill for having returned it....

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 10:38 PM   
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Status: offline 		Hi

Not wanting to get involved in the discussions on which is best, HL or Tamiya etc, I have owned both and each has its own merits - and debits.....

My comment is that the last two Tamiya Tanks I bought were second hand on fleabay - in fact most of my ones were got that way. A FO Tiger I with quality Acoms radio set for £240 and a very nice Panther G for a tad over £300 - both had metal tracks and extras too. I always buy them this way and then strip and rebuild them to the way I like and they do not need much spent on them to get them looking how I want. There are always ones popping up and if you are patient and wait until one is going at a good price you always be rewarded. Tiger I's and Shermans are the most common to get this way.

I even made some money back on them selling the radio gear as I did not need it as I had my own anyway

You don't need to spend full price (or anywhere near it) to get a Tamiya if you are prepared to work this way and I know when I have got an HL over the years and gone down the upgrade route it has cost me more than I paid for my used Tamiyas.

Just my preference on how I do my tanking and not suggesting it is better than other peoples way.

cheers

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 10:38 PM   
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Status: online 		Dont worry, with socialism taking over our country due to the free-sh#t crowd, we will be just as bad off as our friends in Canada and Europe in the near future. Right now, I ordered a Tamiya Sherman from a gent in the UK and had it in 5 business days for about $40 in shipping. Glad to be an American...for now

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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 10:49 PM   
FreakyDude



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Status: offline 		Buy a Clark TK20 or TK22 board from me at $200.00 and I will warranty it for life as well.. most folks forget you pay more to get more ( return shipping is at the purchasers expense )
I wonder how many boards Tamiya replaces? people talk about HL all the time but when Tamiya stuff breaks you rarely hear the screaming
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveBcool

Nobody here posted that Tamiya tanks are perfect.
Of course there are defects/problems, and gearboxes get toasted during intense battling.
In fact, I have witnessed several problems including failed MF and DMD boards, just not on my tanks.
However, there is another HUGE difference between the 2 brands, Tamiya has a lifetime warrantee on electronics.
I know several guys who have mailed in failed units to Tamiya USA HQ in California and received a new one free of charge. 
These boards retail for $200.







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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 11:06 PM   
FreakyDude



Posts: 628
Score: 107
Joined: 8/21/2011
Last Login: 5/21/2013
From: barrie, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		I honestly think this is the stupidest arguement of all, Tamiya vs Heng Long or Heng Long vs Tamiya
Its like telling someone I hate you because your shirt is red

Neither side of this arguement has put forth a rational discussion without allowing it too turn into bashing or trashing.
There is no comparison here as neither tank is meant to compete with the other.  A person can build what ever they want then prove it is better than anything

We as tankers should not be bashing or trashing anybodies choice of anything for any reason. We are all grown up people that should be pulling together to grow this hobby. Yes we have been lucky with some recent releases but we are no where near where we should be.

If anything we should all be mailing BOTH Tamiya and Heng Long and telling them to get off their a**e* 
Lower our pricing, build better and more product and build more add ons and detail parts.



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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 11:09 PM   
rivetcounter



Posts: 1378
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From: Dusseldorf Kalkum Deutschland, GERMANY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruiser133

Dont worry, with socialism taking over our country due to the free-sh#t crowd, we will be just as bad off as our friends in Canada and Europe i



I just love people who haven’t got a clue what they are talking about, Europe hasn’t had Socialism as in true Socialism for decades hence why we are in deep **** allowing greedy bankers to profit at the cost of others, that’s not Socialism, take your head out of your arse and try to lean a little about other countries instead of listening to political propaganda.
This thread is about yet again Tamiya V Heng Long not Politics


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RE: Are Tamiya tanks relevant at their cost? - 1/31/2013 11:28 PM   
YHR



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From: Grande Prairie, AB, CANADA
Status: offline 		Canada is doing OK.

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