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Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/3/2013 5:34 PM   
kwik



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From: kongsberg, NORWAY
Status: offline 		Does any guru out there know how to position the Cam gears correctly on a Saito FG-57?

I have read the Saito 300 manual, but the FG-57 is different.
On the 300 I think there is a gear in between the cam gear and the crank-shaft.

On the FG-57 it is not.

On the FG-57 the Cam-gear is mounted "inside" the cam gear cover.

I have identified a dot and a line mark 90 deg to the dot.

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/3/2013 5:46 PM   
kwik



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Status: offline 		Here is the Cam cover with Cam Gear integrated.

You can see the dot and the line that I found.

So, a procedure similar to the one in the Saito 300 manual would be GREATLY appreciated!

I will ask Horizon hobby too.



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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/3/2013 6:26 PM   
w8ye



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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/3/2013 6:49 PM   
kwik



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Status: offline 		I see! That is good to know! I can probably follow the procedure in the 300 then.

I was confused by these pictures in the 300 manual;

They have included something they call a "pinion gear"...I don't know what that is in Norwegian.

hehe, sorry.

In the position the "pinion gear" is in that drawing, it would be the tooths on the crankshaft....



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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/3/2013 6:56 PM   
kwik



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Status: offline 		I have dismantled everything. Next is getting the crankshaft out. It is hanging in the front bearing now.

I guess the method would be to heat it in the oven to, say 150 degrees celcius, and give it a kick with a soft hammer on the front end?

150 deg Celcius is.....wait for it...300 degrees Farenheit.

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/3/2013 10:31 PM   
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		A couple of minutes with a heat gun and the crankshaft should just about drop out.Replacing bearings?

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/3/2013 10:57 PM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		That small pinion gear in those pictures is the crankshaft.

You have to heat up the front hub and remove it with a puller before you can get the crankshaft out.


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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/4/2013 7:27 PM   
kwik



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quote:

ORIGINAL: w8ye

That small pinion gear in those pictures is the crankshaft.



Aha, okay, that explains that misunderstanding. Thanks again.

I have already removed the hub, or propeller adapter as some might call it.

There is a tiny stop-screw hidden in the propeller hub, difficult to discover by yourself, I might add.


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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/4/2013 7:28 PM   
kwik



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Fart
Replacing bearings?


I don't want to tell you what I am replacing or why. ( Embarassing.....)

When putting the cam-gears back, it will be important to get those dots correctly. When doing that, I have seen that they might turn out of position
while you try to wiggle them in place. Perhaps a trick is to hold the crankshaft/housing vertically while trying, avoiding gravity to work on the cams.

Or perhaps there is another secret trick?

< Message edited by kwik -- 2/4/2013 9:05 PM >

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/5/2013 1:16 AM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		Use a razer blade or exacto knife blade to insert into the cam gear teeth at the edge to hold the cam still while you insert it onto the engine.


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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/5/2013 4:24 AM   
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Status: offline 		The knife blade works or you could use a small dab of grease on the gear to hold it like I did with mine.

Mark

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/5/2013 7:45 AM   
kwik



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Status: offline 		Very good secret tricks, They will be very handy, thanks !

Does anyone know what the line-marking on the cam gears are for? ( ref photo above)


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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/5/2013 10:25 AM   
hyltaiwan


 

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Status: offline 		1.The cam gear with dot only is for the reqular cylinder (intake and exchaust magnaged as a single cylinder engine)
2.The cam gear with dot and slot is for the other cylinder (intake and exchaust are revesed comparing to a reqular single cylinder engine),
and use the slot to align with crankshaft when this cylinder at TDC.(forget about the dot on this cam gear)
You can see that both aligment marks are about equal distance(angle) to the cams. Hope these can do some help to you.
English is too hard to an old Oriental. (slot = your line mark)

< Message edited by hyltaiwan -- 2/7/2013 2:46 AM >

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/5/2013 11:10 AM   
w8ye



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Status: offline 		The cam with the line goes on the left side and you use the line and not the dot. This is when you are standing behind the engine.


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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/5/2013 12:21 PM   
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		Hmmm i still reckon we need the details..like why the engine is being pulled apart

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/5/2013 5:53 PM   
kwik



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Status: offline 		Tanks hyltaiwan and w8ye.

I think you just saved me A LOT OF GRIEF. And many many hours of fiddling around, getting it right.

Good grief !


quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Fart
Hmmm i still reckon we need the details..like why the engine is being pulled apart


From one Old Fart to Another;

This is a clandestine operation!!!

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/5/2013 8:12 PM   
w8ye



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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/5/2013 8:34 PM  1 votes
kwik



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Status: offline 		I am still waiting for the crankshaft. It is on its way, but has to pass through uncountable customs and sort facilities first.

I got the "old" crankshaft out.

5 minutes in the oven at 150 deg celcius (300 degrees Farenheit), took it out, and gave it a solid kick with a rubber hammer.

It popped straight out. Very happy so far.

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/6/2013 11:43 AM   
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		No we are not happy it just got back together,and it is'nt,WE need the gossip w8 sir.At first i thought kwik might have left the oil out of the petroil mix,a new crankshaft raises lots of other interesting possiblities.If i've got the right guy he has some brilliant u tube vids posted with a fg57 in a f4u corsair,shame about the plane then.

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/6/2013 11:13 PM   
kwik



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The F-4U is ready to fly as soon as the engine is up and running again.

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/9/2013 4:41 PM   
kwik



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Status: offline 		w8ye,

I got the new crank-shaft into place, and the two cams. All well so far.

I bought two new conrods too.

I put a drop of oil on the shaft, before carefully trying to tighten the two conrods into place on the crankshaft.

When doing it, I tried to carefully tighten the two conrod bolts.

When they are tightened, I cannot turn the shaft by hand anymore. The conrods seems to tighten too hard around the shaft.

My sense of logic tells me this isnt right.

The part I ordered from Hobbyplastic in the UK is called SAI300T10C.

It was on backorder at Advantage Hobby, but I checked the part number before ordering at Hobbyplastic;

http://www.advantagehobby.com/73852/SAI300T10C/




< Message edited by kwik -- 2/9/2013 8:21 PM >

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/10/2013 7:54 AM   
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		Does'nt sound to good friend,you ordered rods too? I hav'nt heard or read anywhere of saito making different rods for the fg57.In old automotive terms it sounds like your big end shells are a couple of thou to big.From memory those rods are reckoned to be top quality re materials and treatment.Is there any swarf/galling apparent on the crankshaft journals?..you probably won't be able to send the part back now as it's effectively now 'used'.Last resort would be machining the aluminium big end inside diameter???

Ahem... i'd be reluctant to use such a coarse expression as the word "BACKFIRE" here but your engine has'nt just had a shaft run has it...??



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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/10/2013 9:04 AM   
kwik



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Fart

your engine has'nt just had a shaft run has it...??



I am not sure what the term "shaft run out" means in norwegian....it is an expressiion I haven't heard ( in english ) before.

Maybe a piece of paper between the two parts, just to avid them clamping too hard around the shaft ?

I think the reason for it all ( one of the conrods broke in exactly this area ) was as follows;

-When the ignition broke, I ordered a new ignition. Then I got a new ignition but for a sensor just like the big sensor used on
FG-36.

-When I got the wrong ignition, it was in the top flying season, I wanted to fly the Corsair...but the weeks went by.....I took a sensor
from my FG-36 and tried it on the FG-57.

-I did not know at the time that the FG-36 sensor-type ignition is adjusted to spark at top dead center, not at 28 degrees.

-I started it up, it run fine at idle, but at max it spitted a lot of smoke and noise and stopped.

I think that was what damaged it.



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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/11/2013 12:03 PM   
Old Fart


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry mate what i meant was did it throw a prop and rev it's nuts off quickly,or did you do a high speed low pass and clip the ground with the prop.

Did'nt think you would try another ignition and sorry to hear about your expense and the angst that goes with it.Post another vid please when it's flying again and the pain has receded a bit.

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RE: Saito FG-57 Cam gear positioning; How to do? - 2/11/2013 1:09 PM   
SrTelemaster150



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quote:

ORIGINAL: kwik

w8ye,

I got the new crank-shaft into place, and the two cams. All well so far.

I bought two new conrods too.

I put a drop of oil on the shaft, before carefully trying to tighten the two conrods into place on the crankshaft.

When doing it, I tried to carefully tighten the two conrod bolts.

When they are tightened, I cannot turn the shaft by hand anymore. The conrods seems to tighten too hard around the shaft.

My sense of logic tells me this isnt right.

The part I ordered from Hobbyplastic in the UK is called SAI300T10C.

It was on backorder at Advantage Hobby, but I checked the part number before ordering at Hobbyplastic;

http://www.advantagehobby.com/73852/SAI300T10C/





You have the correct rods, the only difference between the 300T & FG57 bottom end is the locating pin hole in the crank for the prop hub.

You didn't get the caps mixed up or turned 180° did you?


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