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throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/4/2013 1:54 AM   
Jaspur_x


 

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From: Friedens, PA, USA
Status: offline 		ok guys, what are the odds I could scale down a "blink "to 0a COX TD 010(throttled) size  ?

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/4/2013 2:03 AM   
MJD



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Status: offline 		Maybe. What is your game plan for radio system?

I throttled my .049 Blink and it was tight. 2 x HS-55 on elevons and HS-50 on throttle, 220mAh NiMH pack.





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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/4/2013 6:09 PM   
skaliwag



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Status: online 		The book of Skaliwag says that Wne for a model powered by a TD 010 is 7oz.
You will need 2 servos to start with, one more HS 50 at 1/4 oz, which would include the throttle push rod should not break the bank.

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/4/2013 6:57 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		I wouldn't scale it down very much..if at all. Air doesn't weigh very much and this design has a lot of air in between the few bits that make up the frame work.
I would lay the elevon servos flat and go with pull-pull linkage rigged with Spideline and 1/8" dowels for the "tiller" arms at the elevons. The Spiderline is feed in a continuous loop from 1 end of the tiller arm, through the holes in the servo arm, then tied off at the opposite end of the tiller arm. Secure the thread once the elevons are centered, by placing a washer under the servo arm screw, then clamp it down.
No throttle..it won't be needed..just dead weight.
I'd cover the plane with craft store cellophane / 3M77 spray adhesive.
According to Big Al..I think he says that a .010 will pull a plane around pretty well that is 5 ozs and under.
Select grade balsa wood doesn't weigh very much either. A guy could try "swiss cheesing" a bunch of holes everywhere [in crappy balsa] then weigh all the "holes" together and find out that it doesn't amount to spit. Might as well just design the frame to be just strong enough to withstand the shrinkage of the covering material then call it good.


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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/4/2013 10:26 PM   
Raymond LeFlyr



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Status: offline 		I agree with C'Pigg, you don't need no steenkin' throttle on a Blink. But since you have one - go for it. I recall the last Blink I saw - I saw it better on the ground than in the air. Fast little bugger. Have fun with yours.

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/4/2013 11:19 PM   
flyinrog



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Status: offline 		Yep CP is usually the first one to say forget the throttle...I know hes told me too.. but in this case I agree with him and Raymond.....your only lookin at climbing as best you can for 90 seconds and then floatin back down..doesnt leave much time to play with the throttle anyway...Rog

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/5/2013 3:27 AM   
exocet-RCU


 

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Status: offline 		Skaliwag, what does your book say about the weight limit for a TD .020. Always been curious about the weight range for one of those. Sorry, guys, don't mean to hijack the thread.

Thanks

Tim

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/5/2013 3:53 AM   
skaliwag



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Status: online 		The Great Book says .020TD = 11oz

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/5/2013 3:59 AM   
skaliwag



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Status: online 		You will have to stick the 010 way out front on a pole to balance.

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/5/2013 4:39 AM   
airraptor


 

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Status: offline 		HS-50's are way to big and not needed. the largest servo I would go with is HS-35's. ru na 200 Mah Life and a Spektrum Ar6310 receiver. less than an ounce in flight gear. now you have 4-5 ounce to play with for the plane.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/ar6310-dsmx-nanolite-6ch-rx-air-SPMAR6310

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/5/2013 2:51 PM   
combatpigg



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quote:

ORIGINAL: skaliwag

You will have to stick the 010 way out front on a pole to balance.


Good point. Might as well build that factor into the design. The photo shows a pusher/canard, but the general shape of this plane might work out good with a .010 in the front.
I don't think the .010 Blink would need as long a forward extension as this, but might as well try to go with a hollow section that is big enough to house some of the onboard equipment.

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/5/2013 11:12 PM   
MJD



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Status: offline 		I'd extend the LE until it meets the .010 size firewall, locate everything forward, and keep the elevons light. May balance out ok.

I agree that you need the lighter wing loading that results from keeping the area the same. The pitch speed of an .010 is not that high, don't expect a rocket, but it sounds like good fun.

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/6/2013 4:33 AM   
Jaspur_x


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raymond LeFlyr

I agree with C'Pigg, you don't need no steenkin' throttle on a Blink. But since you have one - go for it. I recall the last Blink I saw - I saw it better on the ground than in the air. Fast little bugger. Have fun with yours.

I agree also but the delay between eyes,through the brain into the thumbs tends to be pretty severe in my case if you havn`t noticed my youtube video of my ACE littlest stick crash lol

ROG: good to hear from you my friend,like I said, and my fuel tank holds just a bit more fuel than the cox tank/mout lol

No need concern about hijcking the thread, if its too much for the 010, the throttled TD020 is up to the job as usual.

Ray,I think you actually touched the very same blink kit I`m looking at,thanks again lol

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/6/2013 2:46 PM   
Raymond LeFlyr



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Status: offline 		Jasper,

I'm glad you're inspired to continue with the Blink. I have two suggestions/comments; (1) the original design (that he flew at one of Rog's events) is pretty good, I don't think I'd diddle with it too much. (2) I personally am not above adding a little nose weight (go ahead and 'flame' away guys) to maintain the good looks of a design and/or proper CG. (3-never could count) for her maiden, get someone to launch so you can have your thumbs right where they need to be. I have wished I had done so several times in my otherwise unblemished career - fractions of a second can be important.

P.S. My favorite weight source is still wheel weights beaten flat with a hammer, hole(s) drilled appropriately, and placed between the firewall and back plate.

I wait patiently for comments regarding the sin of additional weight adding.

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/6/2013 3:41 PM   
skaliwag



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Status: online 		Raymond. Weights. Your mother should have taken that hammer away from you way back.

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/6/2013 4:05 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		It would be fun to have a simulator that could take design concepts like this .010 powered plane and show what it would fly like with various CGs, wing loadings, speeds, wind, control surface travel, etc. It would be even cooler to see the simulator able to show how light the structure could be built to survive the forces of flight.


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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/7/2013 12:31 AM   
Raymond LeFlyr



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Status: offline 		Oh all right already. I do not add extra weight to every model I build - it is a last resort. Now don't any of youse tell me that you've never added weight to a model - I just wouldn't believe it! Hah, I have exposed an embarrassing truth haven't I? Oh, by the way, it's been driving me nuts that I couldn't remember who designed the Blink - Patrick Ulmer! I've still got a mind like a steel trap - SNAP.

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/7/2013 1:32 AM   
combatpigg



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raymond LeFlyr

Oh all right already. I do not add extra weight to every model I build - it is a last resort. Now don't any of youse tell me that you've never added weight to a model - I just wouldn't believe it! Hah, I have exposed an embarrassing truth haven't I? Oh, by the way, it's been driving me nuts that I couldn't remember who designed the Blink - Patrick Ulmer! I've still got a mind like a steel trap - SNAP.


Raymond, I admit to "undershooting" some 1/2A designs and resorting to lead......
Sandwiching it between the engine and the firewall is a sly way to do it and not have to be a total public disgrace for using it.


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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/7/2013 2:55 AM   
ffkiwi


 

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Status: offline 		I find adding an extra firewall the best way-after all the heaviest thing on the model should be the engine.........and bear in mind I'm mostly building FF duration models-which have really long moment arms compared with R/C models-and no nose to speak of-a fraction of an ounce heavy at the tail end can require ounces at the front to compensate-and we don't have the luxury of moving gear around inside to assist the balance. I'd rather add an extra 1/4" of ply in the form of another firewall (or two)-and move the entire engine (and mount) forward than go bolting hunks of lead inside the cowling! That being said-there are times where you simply don't get any choice-and even then there is the partial option of adding a heavy brass spinner nut to the engine-and you can't put it any further forward than that.........on a single engined tractor layout............

ChrisM
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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/7/2013 6:03 AM   
skaliwag



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Status: online 		Looks a bit like this with a TD .010 on the front.
Scaled to 70%

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/7/2013 1:37 PM   
mick1404



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Status: offline 		when you get it built and flying, hope you video it, it would be very interesting to watch.

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/7/2013 7:24 PM   
Jaspur_x


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: combatpigg

It would be fun to have a simulator that could take design concepts like this .010 powered plane and show what it would fly like with various CGs, wing loadings, speeds, wind, control surface travel, etc. It would be even cooler to see the simulator able to show how light the structure could be built to survive the forces of flight.

Perfect idea!! now just to get someone to get that rolling and I`ll buy/want 1 as well.
I think I will go  with actual 1/2A power on the blink (thottled TD 049 og G-mark .061) at first ,and just copy it or scale it down as needed for the 010 version. I have a guy looking into muscle wire for me in replacemet of servos to keep the weight down on the 010 version.
Also you mentioned light covering,I have never gone lighter than transparent monokote style for covering,I can barely stand the ammount f time spent on this final step of building as it is and doubt that I will be able to get the more complex covering correct without much frustration. Too many irons in the fire 2 the moment sadly.

But I also learned that I should always get my flights on video when possible because they are always worth watching for 1 reason or another and always regret when I don`t catch the flight on video lol

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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/7/2013 11:50 PM   
combatpigg



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Status: offline 		Covering with craft store cellophane isn't complex. You need to wipe it with acetone or alcohol to see which side the pigment [ink] is. Obviously, you want the pigment side down. Cut off a generous portion and lightly spray it [mist it] with 3M77 and place it on your frame work. It takes very little heat to work with this stuff. Start out with a heat that you can touch without burning yourself. The rest is up to you, to explore it for yourself. On such a tiny plane, I'm not sure what the weight differential is vs clear monokote or doculam....but [generally] every gram of weight you save that is aft of the cg is worth 3-4 grams forward of the CG.


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RE: throttled COC TD 010 on a scaled down blink Q - 2/9/2013 11:21 PM   
Jaspur_x


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MJD

Maybe. What is your game plan for radio system?

I throttled my .049 Blink and it was tight. 2 x HS-55 on elevons and HS-50 on throttle, 220mAh NiMH pack.





I was going to use my HK 2.4G 4ch rx and I was going with 3  5gram servos unless I can get something lighter somewhere along the way,but I`m skeptical that I could build a full size blink light enough to be manageable for the low thrust numbers of a 010 with all that drag even with the lightweight covering like was mentioned.
I figure I will biuld the airframe light as I can, install the lightest radio gear I can scrounge up and weigh it ,then decide what sort of power I need on the nose. 


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