quote:

ORIGINAL: raziel1

hi im from the cleavland ohio area. and one day im sitting in my liveng room on a cold winter day watching the news and i see the police department show a quadcopter they will be useing to find missing people and it is set up with night vision.

i dont have no missing peoples at my house and the invasion of my rights also so what happens when i shoot this thing out of the air over my place?

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ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

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ORIGINAL: joebahl

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ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.

It is sad but its true and there will be some who not only give our hobby a bad name but the club's flying field too. In the past years we have lost flying fields for many reasons and i dont want to loose any because bad drones pilots are using them for their home base. joe

You guys have finally convinced me...The FPV guys are inherently more likely to push the limit and are probably going to cause us to lose our flying sites... Down with FPV...them guys are devils!

Now let's start working on those heli pilots and giant scale idiots... We can do it if we just stick together... maybe one day we can get all RC models eradicated as well...

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ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

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ORIGINAL: joebahl

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ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.

It is sad but its true and there will be some who not only give our hobby a bad name but the club's flying field too. In the past years we have lost flying fields for many reasons and i dont want to loose any because bad drones pilots are using them for their home base. joe

Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.

Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?

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ORIGINAL: 804

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ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

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ORIGINAL: joebahl

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ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.

It is sad but its true and there will be some who not only give our hobby a bad name but the club's flying field too. In the past years we have lost flying fields for many reasons and i dont want to loose any because bad drones pilots are using them for their home base. joe

Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.

Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?

But, cj,
Is there not a significant number of Americans willing to ban certain types of guns, and even all guns, because of the actions of a few?

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Before boarding an airliner, does one not have to submit to metal detectors and body scans in order to prove he/she is not capable of downing the aircraft (because our government suspects all passengers are potential criminals)?

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I hate that it is that way, but it is, and it is a real concern wrt FPV.
Our hobby has progressed to the point that FPV makes it easy to step over a line not previously crossed before (notwithstanding Maynard Hill).
And people outside of some of the choir here are uncomfortable with the possibilities.

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ORIGINAL: on_your_six
How would you enforce it? Who enforces the rule? What is the penalty for breaking the rule? How was the penalty originated? What if it is your close friend?

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ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?

quote:

ORIGINAL: on_your_six

Seriously, our club is open 24/7 to members. There is a club safety officer, but rarely is anyone penalized... mostly just a talking to. There is really not a set list of penalties. What should it be??? death penalty??

quote:

ORIGINAL: on_your_six
How would you enforce it? Who enforces the rule? What is the penalty for breaking the rule? How was the penalty originated? What if it is your close friend?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cj_rumley
Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.
Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?

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ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

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ORIGINAL: 804

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ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

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ORIGINAL: joebahl

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ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

Sadly, not always. Hence the problem, the ones that always have to push the limit.

It is sad but its true and there will be some who not only give our hobby a bad name but the club's flying field too. In the past years we have lost flying fields for many reasons and i dont want to loose any because bad drones pilots are using them for their home base. joe

Sadly, some miscreants use guns, Ryder trucks and airliners to commit mass murders. Guns, Ryder trucks and airliners should be banned.

Seriously, if your club cannot enforce a simple rule that prohibits flying beyond the boundaries of the designated flyover area, why have rules at all?

But, cj,
Is there not a significant number of Americans willing to ban certain types of guns, and even all guns, because of the actions of a few?

Yes, that is true, and similarly there are Americans that would ban certain types of model airplanes, even all model airplanes.
I don't agree with them.

quote:

Before boarding an airliner, does one not have to submit to metal detectors and body scans in order to prove he/she is not capable of downing the aircraft (because our government suspects all passengers are potential criminals)?

Also true. At any of the clubs I am associated with (currently three) pilots new to a club are screened at some level as to their ability to safely control their model aircraft and briefed on the rules in effect at the site. In all cases of AMA chartered club flying sites there are rules in effect that designate where models are not to be flown, as behind other pilots. I expect most have rules (or conventions) regarding other exclusion areas that are site specific, and in the rare cases where none such rules/conventions exist I would presume it is because none are required so special rules for any given type of model are unwarranted.

quote:

I hate that it is that way, but it is, and it is a real concern wrt FPV.
Our hobby has progressed to the point that FPV makes it easy to step over a line not previously crossed before (notwithstanding Maynard Hill).
And people outside of some of the choir here are uncomfortable with the possibilities.

Clearly from some of the opinions expressed in this thread some people are uncomfortable with FPV, but I frankly don't see the alternative viewpoint available to the pilot as compelling him to fly in an unsafe manner or otherwise resist compliance with accepted standards at the flying site. Actually he is probably less likely to screw off, as per the rules regarding FPV flying recently promulgated by, AMA a spotter is required.....pilot always has another pair of eyes on his actions.

Every R/C model I own is easily capable of flying beyond distance/altitude limits set by rule or reason, and yet I resist the temptation. Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do? Why would you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: 804


Until recently, we have not had the ability to fly 5 or so miles away, have not had the ability to fly by video, and record by video, and post video for all to see, good or bad.
This is not about what we as hobbiests think anymore, we are no longer out of sight, out of mind.
This is about what the public thinks from the standpoint of media spin,
how FAA reacts to that, and what we may need to do to counter that should the worst happen.

I am not uncomfortable with FPV as a technology by itself.
I am bothered by the way many, and I mean many, not just a few, practice FPV.

Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do?
Because in my estimation, and in the opinion of many, many others, they do.

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ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

quote:

ORIGINAL: 804


Until recently, we have not had the ability to fly 5 or so miles away, have not had the ability to fly by video, and record by video, and post video for all to see, good or bad.
This is not about what we as hobbiests think anymore, we are no longer out of sight, out of mind.
This is about what the public thinks from the standpoint of media spin,
how FAA reacts to that, and what we may need to do to counter that should the worst happen.

I am not uncomfortable with FPV as a technology by itself.
I am bothered by the way many, and I mean many, not just a few, practice FPV.

Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do?
Because in my estimation, and in the opinion of many, many others, they do.

804,

I respect your perspective on issues that concern us as modelers.........we wouldn't be having this discussion if that were not so. I will respond with my take on your legitimate concerns, but later. When I get to pontificating too much I get an eerie sense that I'm stifling discussion and that deprives me of an opportunity to learn from others, my real reason for being here.

One thing by way of an interim summation sort: as this is discussion about AMA and what we feel AMA should/should not do, is it better to welcome/enable FPV modelers to do their thing within AMA's sphere of influence (as they have done and nicely documented with the latest version of AMA Doc 550), or kick them to the curb and attempt to influence FAA/other-powers-that-be to ban the activity in the interest of protecting our public image?

Tnx, out for a break, CU later.

CJ

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ORIGINAL: 804

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ORIGINAL: cj_rumley

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ORIGINAL: 804


Until recently, we have not had the ability to fly 5 or so miles away, have not had the ability to fly by video, and record by video, and post video for all to see, good or bad.
This is not about what we as hobbiests think anymore, we are no longer out of sight, out of mind.
This is about what the public thinks from the standpoint of media spin,
how FAA reacts to that, and what we may need to do to counter that should the worst happen.

I am not uncomfortable with FPV as a technology by itself.
I am bothered by the way many, and I mean many, not just a few, practice FPV.

Why would I expect modelers flying FPV as a class to act any less responsibly than I do?
Because in my estimation, and in the opinion of many, many others, they do.

804,

I respect your perspective on issues that concern us as modelers.........we wouldn't be having this discussion if that were not so. I will respond with my take on your legitimate concerns, but later. When I get to pontificating too much I get an eerie sense that I'm stifling discussion and that deprives me of an opportunity to learn from others, my real reason for being here.

One thing by way of an interim summation sort: as this is discussion about AMA and what we feel AMA should/should not do, is it better to welcome/enable FPV modelers to do their thing within AMA's sphere of influence (as they have done and nicely documented with the latest version of AMA Doc 550), or kick them to the curb and attempt to influence FAA/other-powers-that-be to ban the activity in the interest of protecting our public image?

Tnx, out for a break, CU later.

CJ

I hope no one takes my earlier comments to mean I hate, or am fearful of FPV in general. I'm not. I may well like to get into it someday.
I think AMA's position is taken from what they felt they (we) had to do:
Embrace the new kids on the block , both from a moral, all inclusive standpoint, (not to mention money to be made)
and keeping an eye on safety by way of line of sight operation. I'm all for it.
AMA's position will, I feel, help protect our public image, because it keeps FPV within the realm of modeling, pretty much as we (and the public) have known it.

But, cfircav8tor made an excellent point earlier: "In the past you got involved in R/C aviation through a love of flying and aircraft. With FPV many have no interest in aviation beyond the the point that it is a tool to carry their equipment to specific vantage points."
Right or wrong, many see FPV as an entirely separate hobby. And if we talk about going out beyond line of sight, the distinction becomes even greater. Is it flying a model airplane, or is it operating an airborne camera?

This past summer, I for the first time in about 20 years went flying in a couple of light aircraft. I got to fly a Mooney around, and I took an intro lesson in a R-22 heli.
They were both from the same airport, Indy Metro, about 20 or so mi. North of downtown Indy.
So, fairly busy and crowded airspace. I was struck by how easy it was to actually fly both machines, but how much concentration it took to keep track of what
is going on outside the cockpit.
I'll be honest, I've adjusted my attitude a little concerning the possibility and plausibility of mixing full scale and FPV and UAV and Drones and whatever.

FAA Reauthorization Requires ADS-B by 2020,

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlyinTiger

This thread is nuts...

I fly ''drones'' for a living. We refer to them as Remotely Piloted Vehicles (RPVs) because the word ''drone'' is completely inaccurate. Being careful with where and why we are flying these unmanned aircraft is VERY wise. Disaster relief, port surveillance and border patrol are three good uses for these long endurance, unmanned aircraft. Drug interdiction and searching for illegal manufacturing facilities and ''farming'' are debateable since there is no ''just cause'' to search your property.

A licensed ''for hire'' business flying unmanned aircraft to make money is one thing there has to be sensible regulations for, or people not well trained in aviation rules and regulations will be sharing the ''friendly skies'' with manned aircraft. Not good.

Second, a hobbiest should NEVER be going beyond line of sight, even with FPV aircraft and a safety pilot (every FPV pilot uses a safety pilot and a buddy box, right?) no matter the capability of their equipment.

Third, the mere fact we are discussing this partially is because of the people taking snaps from 1000 feet up in the traffic pattern for airports like LAX...looking DOWN on airliners...or flying over heavily populated cities and taking snaps of bridges.

As a full scale pilot and a UAV/RPA/Drone/whatever pilot, I've been lucky that we can still depend on the ''big sky theory.''

A well known club in the Eastern Virginia area does not call the tower of a prominent airport less than 4 miles away when they fly, and they fly well over 400 feet AGL on a regular basis. Much like other sensitive issues, if we JUST FOLLOW EXISTING RULES we'd be fine and no public intervention would be necessary.

I only step into discussions like this to state some opinions from a guy who actually flies these things... in the hope that someone is watching who can make a difference directly with the AMA, Congress and FAA.

I also belong to the one organization striving to help the AMA negotiate with the Feds, the Jet Pilot's Organization...consider supporting them if you get a chance.

Great discussion, btw.

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ORIGINAL: joebahl


BTW These are the same goofballs with more money than brains who shows up to your club field flying a 150 hp 3-d plane and they should realy be flying a sig kadet SR for another year or so. YOU KNOW THE TYPE cause i see you under the picnick table hiding along with myself when they fly. joe

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ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf

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ORIGINAL: joebahl


BTW These are the same goofballs with more money than brains who shows up to your club field flying a 150 hp 3-d plane and they should realy be flying a sig kadet SR for another year or so. YOU KNOW THE TYPE cause i see you under the picnick table hiding along with myself when they fly. joe

3D planes huh???

Somehow I suspected your fears as being along those lines. The giant scale, more money than brains guys with a Cessna, Cub, or Corsair gets a pass somehow along with those guys that fly the little speed demons all over the sky...

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ORIGINAL: 804

A 150 hp RC 3-d plane would be well worth seeing, IMO.
If anyone knows of such a thing, pls. post it here.

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ORIGINAL: combatpigg

Instances of ''fly-aways'' where the plane turns into an unguided cruise missile are very rare with the typical ''sport flyer'' RC models.

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ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
I wish somebody would tell that to the guys here! I wouldn't characterize it as rare much less very rare for fear of being laughed at for making a joke of some kind...

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ORIGINAL: combatpigg

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ORIGINAL: littlecrankshaf
I wish somebody would tell that to the guys here! I wouldn't characterize it as rare much less very rare for fear of being laughed at for making a joke of some kind...

I wish you guys could share your secrets for how you get your malfunctioned planes to assume perfect neutral trim and attitude as often as you say they do.
I've witnessed it happen just a few times in 27 years. The other few hundred crashes I've been party to... the plane had about a 3 or 4 second life expectancy after it claimed independence from it's owner.