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LIFE or A123 - 2/8/2013 6:29 PM   
1ricardo


 

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From: fort Lauderdale, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I would like to know the difference between LiFe and A123.
What are the pros and cons of those batteries?
Thanks

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/8/2013 7:07 PM   
raptor30se


 

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Status: offline 		They are one in the same, A123 is a trademark name.

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/8/2013 7:38 PM   
GR7Racer


 

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Status: offline 		They have a similar chemistry, but aren't exactly the same.

A123 cells are of cylindrical construction, have better performance under high current draw, and are a little more durable under vibration.

LiFe cells are of prismatic construction (like a LiPo), and have performance suitable to receiver/servo operation under load.

Generally, A123/LiFe packs have many of the advantages that LiPo packs have, without the disadvantages.

* Lighter weight than NiCd or Nimh, slightly heavier than LiPo
* Fast charge does not degrade the cells
* Does not puff and burn like a LiPo
* Does not require a voltage regulator for most applications
* Very low self-discharge (virtually none)

Folks have complained that A123/LiFe packs have a flat discharge curve and you can't tell charge status with a standard voltmeter. This is not completely true, and can be worked around. The discharge curve is not perfectly flat, and you can tell when it is time to stop flying and start charging by monitoring individual cell voltage. Andy Low at ElectroDynamics sells a nice meter that plugs into your balance connector and gives you individual cell voltage. When either cell drops below 3.30 volts, it's time to charge. At that point, you are about 40-50% into your pack's capacity and that's a good margin of error to keep you out of trouble. http://www.electrodynam.com/rc/EDR-207/index.shtml

It's also important to use a discharge/charge routine to determine how much battery capacity you are using per flight, and make sure you don't exceed a safe number of flights on one charge. Again, I like to stop at about 50% capacity and charge. With a fast charge, it only takes about 15-20 minutes to top off a pack. The last caveat on these batteries is to also balance charge them whenever possible. This insures that both cells in the pack are completely charged and that will give you the full pack capacity.

I highly recommend going to the NoBS battery site and reading about his experiences with these packs. Steve also has some great packs and charging/switching products related to A123 that are very helpful and convenient. http://www.hangtimes.com/a123_batteries_for_giants_faq.html


I have used both A123 style, and the LiFe prismatic packs in a variety of airplanes with great success, and recommend them highly. I have even used the prismatic packs in a very high vibration environment without any trouble.

KennyMac

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/8/2013 7:40 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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Status: offline 		Exactly!

WrongwayRC and TailDraggerRC both sell geniune A123 systems packs.

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/8/2013 7:41 PM   
C185Pilot


 

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Status: offline 		Not true. A123 is lithium nano-phosphate chemistry. LIFE is lithium-iron. Different construction. I have constructed batteries for my use and sale and choose A123 every time.

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/8/2013 7:42 PM   
gunradd



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Status: offline 		I had one of those green LIFE packs loose 80% of its capacity over time. I switched to real A123s and have been very happy with them. Not sure what happened to the green LIFE pack but I wont use them now.

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/8/2013 7:44 PM   
raptor30se


 

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Status: offline 		Thanks for that good information, I didn't realize the differences other than shape.

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/8/2013 8:22 PM   
stevekott



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Status: offline 		+1 on the A123's they are great.

A major advantage of this chemistry over Lipo's is you don't need a voltage regulator to the Rx and Servos.  Votage regulators fail ... you crash.

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/8/2013 8:33 PM   
iflyrcjets


 

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Status: offline 		+1 on the A123 packs,  But have used both and have found that the LIFE packs do not like being in Hot weather,  Like storage in a hot trailer, they can poof a little bit.

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/8/2013 9:50 PM   
dasintex



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Status: offline 		A123 +++++++++Period

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 2:17 AM   
cycross



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Status: online 		+1 on A123s. LiFe tend to bloat with time.

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 5:18 AM   
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		I used to be able to say that genuine A123's only come in 1100Mah and 2300Mah or multiples thereof, but I noticed that A123 systems are now quoting the ANR26650 cell as having a nominal capacity of 2500Mah, anyone know if the size of cell has changed or have they improved the capacity internally?

Mike

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 5:56 AM   
Vincent



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quote:

ORIGINAL: BaldEagel

I used to be able to say that genuine A123's only come in 1100Mah and 2300Mah or multiples thereof, but I noticed that A123 systems are now quoting the ANR26650 cell as having a nominal capacity of 2500Mah, anyone know if the size of cell has changed or have they improved the capacity internally?

Mike

I have a 2500 3 cell I just got from electrodynamics and it looks exactly like the 2300 packs I have.
Vin...

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 6:25 AM   
quist



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Status: offline 		I have been using the LiFe ( from a variety of companies) and A123 for a few years now. I have had great success with both. I personally think the original A123 2300 pack is the most reliable battery I have ever seen. I have packs that are 4 years old and still cycle at 1900mah.

But I find the LiFe to have more variety of sizes and capacity. I have a 3200 mah 3cell pack on my ECU that is 2 years old and still cycles at 2800 mah. I use 1500 and 2100 LiFe source for rx batteries in jets that dont need nose wieght. They work for me.

At least once a month I dicharge my batteries down all the way after I fly. It is nice to see what was left in the tank.

I always look to see how much charge I put back in after a day of flying to keep an eye on how much I use per flight.

This works for me.

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 8:27 AM   
DiscoWings



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Status: offline 		hobbico green crap sucks

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 9:56 AM   
AeroFinn


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: iflyrcjets

+1 on the A123 packs,  But have used both and have found that the LIFE packs do not like being in Hot weather,  Like storage in a hot trailer, they can poof a little bit.



I'v been wondering wether I'm running in troubles with my A123 pack installation ( see attached pictures) with respect to the batteries being in hot environment inside the engine cowling:

As the GP Yak 160 is a tail heavy model I needed to mount the two A123 battery packs hanging from a lip I created right on top of the engine stand-offs to reach the correct CG of the model.

The Laser 240v runs quite hot and probably heats up the air inside the cowling, too. How much, I don't know. What do you guys think? Can the A123 take the heat or should I consider some kinde of arrangements to isolate them from the heat?

If I mount them inside the fuse the CG goes back from the desired position

thanks Artto

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 1:10 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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Status: offline 		The 2500 packs are identical, they just increased the capacity

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 2:44 PM   
BaldEagel



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Status: offline 		Thanks for the information, I wonder how they managed that without increasing the size, or is it that the 2300Mah can take 2500, have to look at my charger to see if I can increase the charge capacity at the 3.6V setting.

Mike

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 3:40 PM   
OldRookie


 

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Status: online 		raptor30se...You couldn't be more wrong.

If only the generic LIFE batteries were available, I wouldn't even buy them.
You can't discharge or charge the generic LiFe cells as fast as the A123 cells. It is the patented "Nano" technology that puts other LiFe chemistry to shame. It is all in the negative plate.

Too bad they were totally bought out. Stock up on A123 while you can.

http://www.a123systems.com/about-us-asset-purchase-agreement-and-chapter-11-filing.htm

Greg

< Message edited by OldRookie -- 2/9/2013 4:25 PM >

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 3:54 PM   
airraptor


 

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Status: offline 		I only run LiFe packs and not one single issue. I once left a Hobbico LiFe turned on after a race and wanted to fly it the next month. well I saw the battery was dead and before I changed it I charged it first on a 1 cell setting and then two cell. I then discharged and charged serveral times and it was still with in 90% of its orginal mah.


I think of A123's batteries as DA engines a lot of people buy stuff by their price and think they are the best when other brands will do just fine. Also there are other MFG's building the A123 type batteries and the LiFe batteries come in 200 Mah size all the way to 5000 Mah. It is true so far that the LiFe do not have a high discharge rate most are 10C or less but that is still 50 amps on a 5000 pack plenty for most 40% planes

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 4:07 PM   
OldRookie


 

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Status: online 		Unlike other RC products that are higher priced than others, and there are no real advantages over the cheaper product, there is a real, and not perceived value of the A123 over generic LiFe chemistry batteries.

Greg

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 4:11 PM   
Ron101



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Status: offline 		I've been flying the hobbico life source packs in most of my planes since they came out...
no issues at all they have been great, I like that flat packs better to attach in the plane then the round A123 cells

There is bound to be issues with any cell from time to time

but they seem great to me

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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 4:15 PM   
quist



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron101

I've been flying the hobbico life source packs in most of my planes since they came out...
no issues at all they have been great, I like that flat packs better to attach in the plane then the round A123 cells

There is bound to be issues with any cell from time to time

but they seem great to me


I agree. I have been using the Hobbico LiFe Source batteries for the last year with perfect results. I have them on the rx of my large Skymaster Hawk and my Ultra Flash.



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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 8:35 PM   
BarracudaHockey



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quote:

ORIGINAL: airraptor

I only run LiFe packs and not one single issue. I once left a Hobbico LiFe turned on after a race and wanted to fly it the next month. well I saw the battery was dead and before I changed it I charged it first on a 1 cell setting and then two cell. I then discharged and charged serveral times and it was still with in 90% of its orginal mah.


I think of A123's batteries as DA engines a lot of people buy stuff by their price and think they are the best when other brands will do just fine. Also there are other MFG's building the A123 type batteries and the LiFe batteries come in 200 Mah size all the way to 5000 Mah. It is true so far that the LiFe do not have a high discharge rate most are 10C or less but that is still 50 amps on a 5000 pack plenty for most 40% planes

The patented Nanophosphate of A123 systems make them head and shoulders above LiFe batteries. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the others but A123's are superior cells.

As for DA you're paying for their industry leading support, there are other engines as good or nearly as good as DA for half the price but in some cases you don't get the support like DA consistently delivers.


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RE: LIFE or A123 - 2/9/2013 8:48 PM   
airraptor


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey


quote:

ORIGINAL: airraptor

I only run LiFe packs and not one single issue. I once left a Hobbico LiFe turned on after a race and wanted to fly it the next month. well I saw the battery was dead and before I changed it I charged it first on a 1 cell setting and then two cell. I then discharged and charged serveral times and it was still with in 90% of its orginal mah.


I think of A123's batteries as DA engines a lot of people buy stuff by their price and think they are the best when other brands will do just fine. Also there are other MFG's building the A123 type batteries and the LiFe batteries come in 200 Mah size all the way to 5000 Mah. It is true so far that the LiFe do not have a high discharge rate most are 10C or less but that is still 50 amps on a 5000 pack plenty for most 40% planes

The patented Nanophosphate of A123 systems make them head and shoulders above LiFe batteries. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the others but A123's are superior cells.

As for DA you're paying for their industry leading support, there are other engines as good or nearly as good as DA for half the price but in some cases you don't get the support like DA consistently delivers.


so are you or are you not knocking the LiFe batteries you say there sint anything wrong with them but you say the 123's are superior and head and shoulders above LiFes lol

Bottom line is A123 cells offer better discharge rate but disadvantage of on come in AA size cells you can have a 2300, 4600, 6900 Mah pack and so on. The weight more than an = LiFe but tougher in a crash.
LiFe batteries offer many different sizes from 200-5000Mah but have less off a discharge rate.

To me A123's are over priced when a LiFe battery will fit better in my plane and have the Mah range I need.

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