Dana Lowell

The following are special rules for this upcoming June weekend.
This event is much more historical and competitive than the typical events throughout the rest of the year, so tanks must fit a strict criteria to play on the field.

Doug's Stock Competition Battleday
June 21 (10am - 8pm), 22 (8am - 10pm), & 23 (9am - 2pm), 2013
Indoor RC Battle field, AAF Tank Museum, Danville, VA

Battle Style This Weekend:
* WWII vehicles ONLY on the field. (Prototypes allowed with some sort of proof.) No post-war tanks.
* We are trying to stick with an Axis vs Allied theme, so please bring both types so we can make teams easier.
* The practice of no sweep-shooting will be enforced. (It is not "stop-n-shoot" style, but NO intentional spinning during IR flash).
* Vehicles that experience "spontaneous reset" or go into "God mode" must be removed from battle ASAP.
* You cannot remove a knocked-out (or flipped or broken) tank from field until the current battle has completely finished.
* The correct classification for each vehicle is a must. Captured vehicles must be put on the correct side, either Axis or Allied. For example, a German-captured Sherman with markings is classified as an Axis vehicle.

Tanks Allowed This Weekend:
* Inspections are mandatory and any vehicle that goes on field must pass inspection.
* Standard apple (TBU) applies to all turreted tanks in this event. It must receive hits in the direction of the barrel.
* Only the self-propelled guns are to use the turned mirror, aka "TFA". (See list of SPs below.)
* No electronic devices to change TBU effectiveness from stock.
* Nothing can obstruct the fins on the TBU. Examples: hatches, guns, flags or figures.
* No lowered TBUs. Apple mounting should be stock.
* No painted fins on TBUs. (Top and lower apple body is acceptable.)
* Flash and/or recoil is required to battle and must be visible.
* Only stock Tamiya LED IRemitter is permitted.
* LED IR emitter must be mounted in mantlet or clipped on top of barrel as close as possible to mantlet. (In other words, NOTmounted at the tip of the barrel!)
* Sound output will be adjusted by inspector if necessary. Sound should be easily heard, yet not overpowering other tanks.
* Scale speed is mandatory - forward and reverse. The max speed limit, plus the allowed 2 mph over the RCACN speed chart, is the max allowance. Vehicles that get on the battle field and are too fast will not be tolerated and be removed immediately.


TFA ALLOWED VEHICLES ARE AS FOLLOWS
JagdPanther
StuG 3 & 4
JagdTiger
Ferdinand
Elefant
Panzerjager IV
Maus
Hetzer
Soviet Su series
Other appropriate WWII fixed-gun vehicles.


The weekend will be hosted by Doug Gasser of the AAF Tank Museum. His word is law. Please get your tanks up to specifications BEFORE you arrive so that inspections will be a breeze.

Any questions? Please ask them below, and if necessary, I will forward questions to Doug, (since he is not on RCU).

Hope to see you there!


*(Rules written by Douglas Gasser and edited by Dana Lowell)

Dana Lowell

To sum up:
June!
Danville!
Historical!
Competition Battles!
No Fan Shots
Tank Inspections
Stock Tamiya Apples on Turreted Tanks
TFA Apples on Tank-Hunters and SPs


Hey, if this style event does not appeal to you, don't worry!
There are 3 more Danville events coming up that use the new "TFA" format like recent battles.

September 13, 14 & 15 - Host H*E*A*T (TFA style combat)

November 8, 9 & 10 - Host NEAD (TFA style combat)

December 27 & 28 - Host H*E*A*T (TFA style combat)

tomhugill

How does this effect none tbu users (DBU, slu, etc). Also those those with out the tbu kit who won't have the Tamiya ir led?

Dana Lowell

I will ask Doug to clarify it once again, but as I understand it, he wants his "Stock" event to have all stock Tamiya parts on the lazertag system, so that everybody will feel they are on an even playing field in regards to IR technology. Thanks.

texchap

DBRC3 tanks use Tamiya receivers and their own emitters. I'll await the answer. I have a PZ IV and Panther configured that way.

Dana Lowell

At the May event, there was a tank inspected with a 22' range on the IRLED! We set several different target tanks 22 feet down range and fired. Even with the apples in defensive mode, the targets lit up! Normally, of course, every tank with defensive turret angle should have been SAFE outside of 10 feet...but this super-LED nuked defensive tanks out to 22 feet! Wow! The man said his high-powered IRLEDemitter was an after-market unit that you are all familiar with.

So now, Doug is asking that everyone try to stick with stock Tamiya IR LEDs, rather that using after-market mods or hobby LEDs from Radio Shack, etc...

Yes, I understand from personal experience how hard it is to switch out any electronics that are already mounted and glued into place. In fact, this came up at dinner last weekend. His reply to a tanker with a mod already glued in the barrel was: "Feel free to borrow a stock unit; attach it on the outside the barrel; and just switch the plug in your MF/DMD."

He is willing to help. Many of us have spare Tamiya apples on hand as well.

Doug and I want you all to be happy on arrival. That is why he wants me to help get the word out IN ADVANCE, so there will be no surprizes when you arrive after a long trip, and so he can make inspections as QUICK as possible. Getting you guys onto the battlefield is the top priority. So let's hash out all the specifics now, to ensure the most stick time!

But as with any question, I will run it by him for final clarification....

Thanks.

texchap

yep I caught that and edited the post LOL.   My only question now is about the DBRC3 systems.

Ronan87

So TK-22 with a tamiya IR LED with a tamiya apple (or the clones) would be fine?

FreakyDude

If they allow the DBRC3 system they must allow every other system as well.

What happens when the general public figure out how to tweak their Tamiya LED to get the extra 10' of range. Are Tamiya products going to be excluded from battles?
their field, their rules though. Lump it or leave it. I see the reason why it needs to be done as well.

Strato50

I'm curious about this 'nuclear tank' round you speak of...

Either someone has an IR bulb completely un-shrouded, or the wavelength is way off on some harmonic somewhere. Very strange.

I agree with Freaky, I see the need and reasoning for such rules.

What is the reasoning for no end-barrel emitters? Most of my tanks (3/4) are set up that way, less of a blind-spot.

2 of my 5 tanks can be 'easily' modded to these standards, if need be :P

Buckeye36

My Feedback: (3)

I believe it's to prevent sticking your barrel through the trees while hiding the apple.

texchap

I saw the tank, it was a Tamiya King Tiger. The IR was mounted in the standard spot on the barrel in the stock Tamiya mount. it was shrouded. The owner grabbed one of his bulbs he had to set it up. It was crazy. he had fantastic range.

Dana Lowell

Hi Doug, I posted your June rules on RCU and got some questions from guys:
1) Will you allow DBU, SLU, El-Mod and other after-market apples?
2) What about the DBRC3, it has Tamiya apple but after-market emitter?
3) Will you allow the TK-22 unit that uses the Tamiya apple and Tamiya emitter?



10:07am Douglas Gasser:
As long they are 100% compatible with the Tamiya system, I have no problem.
With no advantages over the tam system.

Sent from Mobile

YHR

Actually the DBC was built to mimic the Tamiya system for a reason. For this reason I am a little confused by your logic that if a DBC can be used then all others must be too???. If a system is 100% compatible then yes I believe it can be used.

This is why a minimum standard was set up so people developing systems could always default back to the defacto Tamiya standard. The developers that paid attention to this should have a system that will pass the inspection.

Texchap. You should have zero issue using a Tamiya emitter and the TBU with your DBC equipped tanks. Just plug in the Tamiya emitter to the DBC3. You will have to range test it to make sure you have same range as the Tamiya tanks, as I believe you may find the range slightly less then a Tamiya.

EDIT.

Just read the other response from the organizer. If your current IR emitter acts the same and has no advantage over the Tamiya then you are fine. SO your current set up will probably be OK. They might have an issue with the 45 meter range one we were discussing though

I have limited exposure to the Clark boards, but I believe they should be OK as well. People will just have to make sure they have them programmed correctly for the Tamiya game. Just like the DBC my only concern would be if the Tamiya emitter is the one that must be used. If that is the case you may find that the DBC and the Clark are a little short in the range department, but this would be a disadvantage to the Tamiya's and not an advantage..

Airbrushler

ok what causes this

* Vehicles that experience "spontaneous reset" or go into "God mode" must be removed from battle ASAP.

whats the cure

CustomRCmodels

you guys remember this here ?

well , most of you want , but that's it :

The latest in TBU design !

http://youtu.be/4lvl7ZYQE3o

Dana Lowell

By the way, everyone, 

CustomRCmodels

CustomRCmodels

YHR

Most of this systems are sensitive to grounding issues or low power to the electronics that produce a brown out. When this happens there is no telling how your battle system may react.

Cause
Weak batteries,
Sudden excessive draw on the battery
Motors drawing large amps due to weight, climbing or something in the tracks.
Wire gauge to thin

Sometimes you can use a separate battery to power your radio gear and isolate it from the electronics that are drawing the heavy loads.

Dana Lowell

Hello Airbrusher and others,
I will refer you to a 2007 article below where I tried to identify what "Sponteneous Resets" are.

In short, it is a common glitch in the Tamiya electronics that causes tanks to have extended life beyond the normal battle cycle. Let's say your Heavy tank has received 5 incoming hits and you are driving, but with reduced speed on the motors. The your tank catches a partial hit (incomplete IR code)from an enemy. That fragmentary pulse will tell your unit to reboot to 9 full "lives", including the restoration of full motor power. Your tank speeds up in a very apparent way. Once your tank is killed in combat, you have counted a total of 13 hits, (4 remaining plus reboot to 9 = 13 "lives".) This we call a "Sponteneous Reset."

At "Fun Run" style events, such as in May, we allow tankers to "play through" the glitch. But in a competative event, such as this June, it is up to a "gentlemen's agreement" to withdraw your reset tank as a TKO, (Technical Knock-Out).

You may have never seen a Sponteneous Reset in normal household testing or small group scrimages. But in a large, 12-hour-long event such as Danville, this may happen once or twice to each person per day! Sometimes more, sometimes never. (The glitch is more prone to tanks with low batteries and hot DMD/MF boxes, and usually during power brown-out from motor use.)

"God Mode" is triggered when you start your tank THEN insert your apple in the mount. This tells your system to enter the "Test Mode" mentioned in your instructions. This tank will run around killing everybody in sight without taking any reduction in speed or ever "dying" from hits. The cure for this is to cycle the tank power switch to reset the gaming mode. A tank in God Mode is due to a careless error on the part of the operator, and needless to say, the tank must be pulled from the battlefield, (and usually everyone wants to restart the entire game...Embarrassing!)

Here is the link to the 2007 notes on Sponteneous Resets: www.heatarmor.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php

Hope this helps. Dana

White Tiger88

So i assume 90+ Feet is over powered.....?

TheBennyB

Nope, seen Tamiya IR's hit out to 120 ft.

TheBennyB

Dana, Any chance you could post up a speed/distance chart for guys to check tank speeds at home? Guessing as usual your using top road speed?

ausf

Okay, I'm on the fence here. This event coincides with the end of my sons' school, so it's possible we could make it.

I have two completely stock Tamiyas and the DBC StuG which is absolutely more vulnerable than Tamiya, but does not have an apple sticking out. It'll pass any test otherwise, even my Tamiyas are set up with more constraints than club rules. The emitter tube is scrimmed down narrow enough that the beam will only hit the width of a tank at 30 feet. I prefer it to be more difficult to hit something, even if it puts me at a disadvantage in a meet setting, most of my battling is with the kids locally.

All that said, I fully appreciate this type of event and rules. I consider it 'hardcore', and I mean that in a good way. My issue is, hardcore events usually attract hardcore participants and I'm wondering if this would be a good first venue for my sons (I don't mean a bunch of old salt's cursing, but 3 first timers thrown in with guys looking for a serious battle).