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Re: Transmitter design - 4/28/2002 11:32 AM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed_Moorman
Everyone has given several great ideas. I would like to add a couple more which might not work for all people.

Our transmitters look great because they are so smooth and symmetrical, but I think this is for sales and not human factors.

1. If you fly with your right hand, I think all the controls should be on the left side so you don't have to release the primary stick to move the control. Make the transmitter "lop-sided," for lack of a better word, so all the switches can be on the left side.

2. The controls, switches, knobs, etc. should be different shape so the difference can be felt. We already have long and short switches, but how about switches with square, round, triangle shapes on top of the switch.

3. Snap and roll switches/bottopns should be selectable for exclusive or non-exclusive. Most snap switches are now exclusive. I remember older JR transmitters had non-exclusive roll buttons that were much more flexible in their use.

4. Of course it goes without saying that the instruction manual should be written by a person in the local country for whom the language is native. I also feel an instructional video or computer based training should be included. [/QUOTE]

You must be tired of hearing this answer most times now. Multiplex!

1. On the 3000 and 4000 series you fit the switches where you want to.

2. On the 3000 and 4000 series you fit whatever switches, buttons or knobs that you want. If you want a sprung switch or a 3 position switch or a push to make button you just buy it and fit it where you want it. Multiplex radios are explicitly designed to be opened and customised by the user. The 3000 and 4000 have a quick release catch on top of the Tx so that you can have the back off in a second and you have access to all the wiring and the sockets on the main board that the controls plug into. The software has a screen that shows which way around the software believes a switch has been fitted so you can see if you fitted it right way up or need to rotate it 180 degrees.

3. Multiplex primary controls and secondary switches are totally user assignable, nothing is pre-determined and set in stone by the Mpx factory. On most of their Tx you get to choose the names for each stick and switch and which socket on the Rx each one comes out of, for each model memory. Even the 2 rotary programming dials on the Royal Evo are re-assignable as controls/switches.

4. The Royal Evo comes with the manual on CD-ROM which includes video clips of how to program it.

The radios that you are all saying that you want in the future already exist today, but you have to look away from the Japanese chrome boxes.

Harry

< Message edited by HarryC -- Apr 28 2002 6:42AM >

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/28/2002 3:46 PM   
steveg_oz


 

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Status: offline 		Well, seeing that Multiplex is getting such a good plug, I thought I'd better put in a plug for the Graupner/JR MC24. This radio does everything that the Multiplex 4000 does, but IMHO, it is simpler to program and more reliable. It is also software ROM upgradable. I'm curious why these styles of radio have made so little impact in the States. In Australia, the JR importer also brings in the Graupner sets (made by JR to Graupner specs). Multiplex has also been established here for a long time.

I think that the Mulitplex radio does have the most flexible programming model, but I've seen guy's spending hours on the field trying to get the program just right (and yes, I know about the copy facility). The MC24 has predesigned mixers for heli's and gliders which simplify the task greatly, but with all the assignability and flexibility of the Mulitplex.

Gotta say that the EVO looks interesting though. Anyone care to comment on its programming model. Have multisplatt finally scaled up the Cockpit model to a full strength radio? This might really improve the complexity problem of Multiplex 4000's.

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Royal EVO - 4/28/2002 4:58 PM   
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Status: offline 		After speaking at lenght with the head Honcho at Multiplex (Germany), The EVO should be the most easily programmed radio of all.

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/28/2002 6:32 PM   
AJF--2


 

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Status: offline 		A lot of what I was talking about is not available--for instance--How about a recessed slide bar on the left back or side of the trans for flaps-(isn't that where your index finger is anyway?)--I really hate trying to remember if clockwise on the knob is down flaps, or the other way around. This is very frustrating in a crosswind when you need fingers on the rudder, elevator, and ailirons at the same time--then trying to find the knob at the same time....well.. it seems there could be a better design somewhere. Also, how about moving the retract switch to the back also in the form of a recessed rocker toggle. --In other words--PUT THE SWITCHES WHERE YOUR FINGERS ARE! DON'T MAKE ME GO LOOKING FOR THEM--I AM LOOKING AT THE PLANE.
What I said about the keypad--I know there are many trans with PC programing--this is not what I meant. I like to watch the control surfaces move as I set throws and so on. I just suggested to be able to remove the buttons from the face completely when not in use since most people don't set subtrims or duel rates, etc.... when they fly
I also think most manufactures sell the look anyway--and I agree--too much plastic crome!
Thanks for all of the interest!

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/28/2002 7:15 PM   
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Status: offline 		I'll probably get stoned for this, but here ( my club anyway ) multiplex trannys have an image as giant tea trays you need a strap on for and you have to have that stupid finger and thumb flying style.
They might be great transmitters but the ones I'VE SEEN dont have that nice in "your hands look"
I like the way you use most transmitters, tho one or two simple JR ones look to wide for my liking.
The switches where your fingers are is a good idea, i was trying to change my flaps the other day during a prophang, so i had both hands full.
I dont think you could do the lop sided trannys as theres so many modes people fly. but Hi-tec do a one stick 3 channel job for electric gliders that has the throttle on a slider on the back, weird to get used to for throwing the glider, but good when flying.
Im still trying to find the pic of that Ripmax tranny i said about before

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/28/2002 8:58 PM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by phillybaby
I'll probably get stoned for this, but here ( my club anyway ) multiplex trannys have an image as giant tea trays you need a strap on for and you have to have that stupid finger and thumb flying style.
[/QUOTE]

Phil, the point you are making is a widespread belief about Mpx and I am glad of the opportunity to deal with it. I can assure you that if I had to fly finger and thumb I would never have touched an Mpx Tx for I am a committed thumbs on top flier.

It is a very common perception about the wide Mpx Txs and is a criticism most often made about them. Not usually by people who have actually used them though. I fly thumbs on top of the sticks as do all the Mpx users that I know, except for our one club member who flies in the scale world championships and flies fingers and thumbs and has switches installed on the stick tops. When someone else hands me their 3030 to have a fly of their model I do it without a strap, hand-held, thumbs on top. What actually matters is not the distance between the sticks, but the distance from the edge of the Tx to each stick because that's the distance your thumb has to cover. And that distance on Mpx is the same as on Futaba/JR. Because the Mpx Tx is slimmer than Japanese, the distance you have to open out your hand to stretch around the case and up to the stick tops is actually less, yes LESS, than Futaba/JR!! If you hold your hands out in front of you and just let them fall into a natural position you will find that your hands are quite wide apart and thumbs and fingers curled close together - pretty much where a shallow wide Mpx Tx slides in. To hold a Japanese Tx you have to turn your arms inwards which angles the axis of your thumb movement, and then you have to stretch your hand open from the way it wants to naturally be in order to accomodate the depth.

So the odd looking wide shallow Mpx do not need a tray, do not need a neck-strap, do not need finger and thumb style. I fly thumb on top, very comfy and tho' I use a strap, I did with my Futaba/JR anyway and I have often flown with an Mpx Tx hand held, no strap, thumbs on top.

Harry

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/28/2002 9:00 PM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by phillybaby
multiplex trannys have an image as giant tea trays [/QUOTE]

Didn't an earlier post suggest Tx with a cup holder? Well here we are, once again Multiplex have already got it covered!!!

Harry

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/28/2002 9:06 PM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by phillybaby
I'll probably get stoned for this, but multiplex trannys have an image as giant tea trays you need a strap on for[/QUOTE]

What effect your alcoholic or cannabis smoking habits have on you is none of our concern, but I think you are being very judgemental about transvestites and their marital aids.

Harry

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/28/2002 10:47 PM   
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Status: offline 		AWWWWWWW damn it, years of using Futaba and Acoms have made me deformed lol i held my hands out and it was wrapped around a Futaba tranny. oh yer? lol
even tho my hands face in, my thumbs move up and down naturally, so maybe im just used to this.
ooh no, just tried it other way, my thumbs clicked lol
did i mention the guy at our club with one, has that tea tray, and a strap, and hes even nicked the windscreen off a bike and got it on top. maybe im gonna go have a look a the Multiplex site in a min and see if they got and trannys for kack handers like me.
and for the record, i dont beleive that fingers and thumbs for skill stuff lol, does he stick his tounge out too? lol d:

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/28/2002 11:09 PM   
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Status: offline 		http://www.modelspot.com/mpx/royal.htm
gezzz louise! thats a hell of a set
even built for us poor lot that have malformed hands and you can adust the stick angles as well. lots of nice features built in, i like it.
but can i just swap my Futaba tranny for that one? ( she will be disapointed lol )
And is it memory limited or Cam Pak type thing like FF8?
well worth considering one of those insted of a FF8 to replace my T6X. running out of memorys you see.
lol guys at field kinda accept my weird plane, think that would be too much for them, but i think i need someone to talk me though what all those features mean, maybe when the day i might think about possibley maybe getting a new tranny

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/29/2002 3:55 AM   
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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/29/2002 3:56 AM   
Ladyflyer



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REDO LAST MOVE[/COLOR]

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/29/2002 8:14 AM   
lnorris


 

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Status: offline 		I'll second that..

Of course I think an:

"UNDO last move"

Would sometimes be more helpful.

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/29/2002 12:52 PM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by phillybaby
http://www.modelspot.com/mpx/royal.htm
gezzz louise! thats a hell of a set
lots of nice features built in, i like it.
but can i just swap my Futaba tranny for that one? ( she will be disapointed lol )
And is it memory limited or Cam Pak type thing like FF8?
[/QUOTE]

Should work with any make in the UK. The Royal Evo has more memories than any JR/Futaba plus you can download the memories to your PC, freeing up memories on board the Tx thereby giving effectively an unlimited number of memories.

Harry

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/29/2002 4:41 PM   
Nuker



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Status: offline 		hmm, a dream transmitter.

I'm happy with my 8UAFS but a few mods would make me happier

- A single button for SELECT (pushing two buttons at one time works 90% of the time but that 10% is annoying)

- audible readout on timer (press a button, radio says .."you have x minutes left". This technology is cheap already and available at Radio Shack. I can keep my eye on my plane as it plummets to earth instead of looking at the timer

- It's been said before but, a decent battery. I'm amazed a radio that cost $550 Cdn comes with a 600 Mha battery. I hate field charging so ended up with another battery.

- A neckstrap bigger than a shoelace.

- Perhaps a better manual, but to be fair, the website has an amazing about of information on the radio. The online data and great support reputation are what prompted my purchase of 2 of these radios (present for Mrs. Nuker). I ended up with the Don Edberg book that was much better written than teh tsock manual IMO and I could bring it to the field; just in case. (regrettably can't bring the web....yet

Do extra features cost more? Of course they do, but some of these feature would be well worth the incremental cost.

Then again, would I buy another of the same radio? Darn right I would, these are just some ideas anyway. Some of these features are already in the new 9 channel.

Nuker

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Transmitter Ideas - 4/29/2002 10:47 PM   
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Status: offline 		I think many of you are still thinking inside the box. For new and innovative ideas on transmitters, you must go outside. I am sure the Multiplex radio is a great one, but no radio, in my opinion, gives me all the things i would want.

Let's add a control panel about equal in width to the present transmitter on the left hand side. Sure you would need multi point support, but so... Your right hand would never have to move from the primary stick. I'm not sure how we'd handle you mode 1 or European split stick fliers.

On the panel would be all the trims arranged so they mirror the present trim location, but out of the way on the left.

Switches would have large knobs on top, say a quarter inch or larger in various shaper, circle, traingle, square, star, etc. so you could recognize them by feel.

You would plug in an ear bud-you'd need one ear free to hear dead stick calls and such. When you moved a switch, audio would indicate what you did.

There would be a guarded button to let you go into the functions menu for in-flight programming. I know some people couldn't handle flying and programming at the same time, but I would sure like it.

A toggle would let you progress through the menu with audio telling you where you are. Just think about programming roll and pitch out of knife edge if you could easily get to your mix and change it between passes. "Mix 3, rudder-aileron," sounds in your ear bud. You toggle in (left or right) a couple of clicks of more aileron mix and try another pass. then you toggle up to mix 4, rudder-elevator to correct a pitch down tendency.

Let's also have a button that gives you an audio run down of your settings.

Now, how about goggles that give you a heads up display in the periphery that gives you all your settings.

Let's not just ask for better batteries and such. When I first started flying RC, dual rates were unheard of. Mixing, what is that? End point adjustment, all of the things we take for granted in all our radios hadn't been thought of. Well, maybe they had, but no one had built them. If we're trying to let the manufacturers know what we want, let's go way outside the box. I want a lot!

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/29/2002 11:01 PM   
lnorris


 

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Status: offline 		I love the idea of goggles with a heads-up display. Have them auto-dim so you won't be blinded by the sun and ZOOM on the "oh crap" voice command.. Then, of course, comes Night Vision.. muhahaha....

Actually I like the earbud idea. couple that with the voice timer idea and you have a fairly cool idea that no one has, not even Multiplex.

One thing I saw at http://www.battlebots.com/bnc_tools.asp was they've enabled two-way communication. Wouldn't it be great to KNOW what RPM you where running, a real-time fuel gauge, battery status, etc...

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Re: Transmitter Ideas - 4/29/2002 11:10 PM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed_Moorman

On the panel would be all the trims arranged so they mirror the present trim location, but out of the way on the left.

You would plug in an ear bud-you'd need one ear free to hear dead stick calls and such. When you moved a switch, audio would indicate what you did.

There would be a guarded button to let you go into the functions menu for in-flight programming. I know some people couldn't handle flying and programming at the same time, but I would sure like it. Just think about programming roll and pitch out of knife edge if you could easily get to your mix and change it between passes.
[/QUOTE]

Part of this is already here but has further to go yet.

The Royal Evo has gone a part of the way towards your suggestion of trims on a panel to the side, the trims are no longer next to the sticks but arranged in 2 pairs down the front of the Tx where your thumb goes, and so you can get to 2 trims at a time with each thumb. each trim is two buttons rather than 1 slider. This has given me an idea, why not have top hat trimmer so you can adjust two trims at same time, e.g. get down ele and left aileron together without having to do one at a time.

Mpx 4000 has a voice module with an earpiece but it is very limited in what it tells you. Mpx should really have developed this a lot further.

Flying and programming is an integral part of all Mpx computer Tx, you can do it with Cockpit, 3010, 3030, 4000 and Royal Evos9 and 12. That's the real beauty of the "digi-adjuster", Multiplex's name for the rotary knob. On the 3000 and 4000 series the buttons are beneath a lid so you close it down, the Cockpit and Royal Evo buttons are in the open. You leave one setting open in programming eg rudder to ele mix, do a knife edge and turn the digi adjuster knob until the pitching stops, as you are actually doing the knife edge, real time, just as you asked for Ed! I have done exactly this many many times and oh boy does it make life quick and easy to set up an aerobatic model, or set the flap to ele trim offset on scale etc. You do have to land to change over to the rudder to aileron mix and then fly again to adjust that. However the Royal Evo has 2 digi-adjustors and specifically allows you to adjust 2 different settings in flight. So it has not yet gone as far or as sophisticated as you want, but the core of this feature has been on Mpx for years so it is not as futuristic as you think!

Don't dream about it, check out Mpx, a lot of what you want is either already there, or the kernel of it is already there.

Harry

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/29/2002 11:23 PM   
HarryC


 

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Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by lnorris
Actually I like the earbud idea. couple that with the voice timer idea and you have a fairly cool idea that no one has, not even Multiplex.
[/QUOTE]

It's back to school for you lnorris! The Mpx 4000 has had an optional speech module for donkey's years, called the Co-Pilot module. Via an earpiece it tells you countdown times, count up times, lap counts and lap times (for things like F3B racing), your flight mode (like Futaba flight conditions) when you switch modes, battery alarm and even rpm if you use the plug-in rev counter.

Do keep up chaps! I know that very very few of you in the USA have ever seen an Mpx in a magazine photo never mind in real life, I think it's time you made the effort to find them and take a long hard look, you will be very surprised at how far ahead of the Japanese radios they are.

Harry

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/29/2002 11:37 PM   
lnorris


 

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Status: offline 		HarryC, you made my heart stop there for a second. I thought you where going to tell me that Multiplex had Night Vision goggles.... whew.... ;-)

And the RPM, lap counter, etc.. is that the result of two-way communication or an estimation based upon other factors?

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Multiplex Clan Out of Control Again... - 4/30/2002 12:16 AM   
JohnW



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Status: offline 		I think it is only fair to say that the top of the line TX of any the major RC players allready offer most of the features mentioned in this thread. Sorry Multiplex guys... yes there are other transmitters and they aren't all crap. Don't mean to run over your puppy but you are showing a very biased one sided view to this subject. Just like you have in other threads. Come on guys... this is a forum for modelers to explore and learn from... not an advertising medium. Yes, there are some features unique to Multiplex radios and I think you should point them out, but for that matter there are features unique JR and Futaba radios too. Blurting out that "Multiplex does this" when you know full well other radios can do the exact same thing is very misleading and I know you are doing that intentionally becuase one of you is a Multiplex dealer.

As for TX features, I'd like a little computer and screen in my TX so I could fly my RealFlight Sim.

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/30/2002 1:17 AM   
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Status: offline 		I called Multiplex today and it seems the Royal EVO will not be here in the states until November. Looks great on the UK Website. Still trying to figure out the "currency thingy" so as to get an idea how much these bad boys cost. Considering the Profi 4000 trans is a grand in itself--well I can only imagine about the Royal. Can one of you Multiplex dealers email me and let me know--Thanks--

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If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/30/2002 1:28 AM   
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Status: offline 		theres a curency converter on there i think, if not just use any search engine for one, tho i take half and add it to get US$ ish.....
im still looking at the evo9 as a serious replacement rather than the FF8, which is of course 'UK standard tranny'
its a way off yet tho, maybe we have those cup holders as a standard feature by then lol

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Multiplex - 4/30/2002 1:44 AM   
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Status: offline 		Monkey Boy,
You are probably reffering to me as being a dealer. First let me tell you all those comments didn't come from me but I wish they did. Harry says it better then me.

Let me tell you something about me being a dealer. First, I'm a Multiplex user, and its the reason of its high quality that I became a dealer. and not the other way around. I'm not pushing the dealership that much because I only deal when I get orders. I am retired and certainly don't need the revenues and my customers will relate to that with my prices being so low.
Nobody said that Futaba or JR were no good, they are tremandous radios, but if you look closely without any bias, you would yourself come to the same conclusion as Harry and I do.
I have tried over the years, to go with the North American flow as far as Radios go, but there was nothing that came close to Multiplex so that's why I will not change. I have yet to know anyone that has used Multiplex and go back. So Monkey Boy, I suggest that you don't try Multiplex, because you might regret it, you will be hooked.

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(in reply to AJF--2)
       Post #: 49

If you could design your own transmitter--what would yo... - 4/30/2002 1:59 AM   
Cactus.



Posts: 6138
Score: 100
Joined: 12/19/2001
Last Login: 11/25/2009
From: CamborneCornwall, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		shame you live in the wrong Cornwall to sell me a nice cheap one
we might be heading a bit toooo much into multiplex, but if people are asking for things that are already there, then at least someone is pointing that out, its not harry or aeros fault multiplex has someone on the design team that thinks about these things all day.

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(in reply to AJF--2)
       Post #: 50

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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros >> Re: Transmitter design
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