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asking stunt pilots - 10/6/2003 5:59:21 AM   
tipo750


 

Posts: 48
Joined: 5/24/2003
From: Dallas, TX,
Status: offline 		I flew control line for years as a kid before I began training and flying R/C and moving into pattern flying. The biggest UC plane I had was powered by the OS .40. My question is... what's stopping us from building a 2-meter sized "Genesis" (I haven't kept up with the latest designs) with huge engines and 100 ft lines? The maneuvers would be bigger and more graceful with the appearance of flying more slowly.
       Post #: 1

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/6/2003 6:30:52 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Eric:

How heavy are you?
How strong are you?
How's your stamina?
Why the questions?

Consider the line pull on your monster.

Bill.


_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to tipo750)
       Post #: 2

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/6/2003 7:59:05 AM   
Hossfly



Posts: 3841
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Back in the very old days some did that, using the U-Reely control handle.

Problem today is that AMA rules demand shorter lines for contest purposes and that is what sets the standards.

In addition, it would take a big model with lots of Pull-Out set in to lift those lines at T.O. Then when it got going, so would you!

Hey W. robinson, you sent me a private message yesterday. A reg. email came in also. I answered the reg. email and just deleted the private RCU mail. Then the reg. email bounced. The item in question is in the AMA forum with topic words re-arranged, but same old P&M and just searching for sympathy.

Hope you read this.

< Message edited by Hossfly -- 10/6/2003 3:00:51 AM >

_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Official Candidate: AMA Ex. Vice Pres. Vote H. Cain. Help move AMA into 21st Century
The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein

(in reply to tipo750)
       Post #: 3

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/6/2003 8:38:07 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Eric:

I have flown 80' lines. Not really worth the effort. And as I said to begin with, line pull. And Hossfly agreed.

Horace:

I did read it. My note to you was in re:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1181193

saying I didn't understand the problem.

You do need to remember, Hoss old man, that one man's P&M is another man's campaign statement. And since I don't have a program I can't tell the players apart in D8, whether they're yours, Jim Branaum's, or Sandy Frank's. I have enough to worry about here in D5 without getting into D8 also.

Thanks.

Bill.



_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to tipo750)
       Post #: 4

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/6/2003 12:32:00 PM   
gcb



Posts: 2419
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tipo750

...My question is... what's stopping us from building a 2-meter sized "Genesis" (I haven't kept up with the latest designs) with huge engines and 100 ft lines? ...


Actually, you could do this for fun flying on your own site. The problem comes in when you want to compete at a contest. I think the current limits are 70' lines and .80 engine.
One flyer (Dan Banjok) has a 2X Flite streak with a over limit engine that he flys as a fun demo. It pulls so hard that he has to throttle it back for part of the flight to rest. I think he uses .021 braided lines.

Stunt these days is taking several paths. One is to recreate planes from before 1953. Even a spark ignition class. Fun is where you find it

George

(in reply to tipo750)
       Post #: 5

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/6/2003 12:48:39 PM   
gcb



Posts: 2419
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tipo750
I flew control line for years as a kid before I began training and flying R/C and moving into pattern flying. The biggest UC plane I had was powered by the OS .40. My question is... what's stopping us from building a 2-meter sized "Genesis" (I haven't kept up with the latest designs) with huge engines and 100 ft lines? The maneuvers would be bigger and more graceful with the appearance of flying more slowly.


Actually, I am considering your remark about "Genesis". Its creator Bob Hunt went on to become world champion stunt pilot. He later tried RC Pattern and was somewhere in the top ten (I think) but decided to go back to control line because he liked the feedback you get with a CLPA (stunt) plane. Bob is now the "Aeromodeling Editor" for Model Aviation (AMA) magazine and runs the "Modeling Spoken Here" column. If you check that column you can see the Caprice he is now flying.
Some folks fly more than one type model.

George

(in reply to tipo750)
       Post #: 6

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/7/2003 4:33:12 AM   
tipo750


 

Posts: 48
Joined: 5/24/2003
From: Dallas, TX,
Status: offline 		Wow, he's changed a lot... I remember a guy with dark curly hair and dark mustache. I only brought up that particular model because it was the first time I saw real stunt flying in person... the plane has stuck in my head ever since. I am considering getting into stunt and pattern at the same time, and since bigger planes fly better, I was wanting to know how far to push the size.

(in reply to tipo750)
       Post #: 7

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/7/2003 5:03:47 AM   
Elwyn



Posts: 105
Joined: 12/22/2002
From: Broken Arrow, OK, USA
Status: offline 		I think the rules are actually 70 feet maximum length from the handle to the centerline on the plane. I could be remembering wrong though.

(in reply to gcb)
       Post #: 8

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/7/2003 6:41:53 AM   
downunder



Posts: 3193
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Back in my youth I once built a stunter that was 6 foot span with a Taipan .61 to use in competitions. I'm not all that big and in overheads I'd only have one foot barely touching the ground. It was a monster but could have been OK if I'd known more about CG placement. But with a properly sorted model for fun flying there's no real reason why it wouldn't work although 100 foot lines are getting a bit long

That said, I tend to fly larger than usual stunters (well I'm in Australia so I don't have to copy anyone else) at around 830 sq inches. This has worked beautifully, even with an ST G51 for power, at a weight of 59 ounces.

(in reply to tipo750)
       Post #: 9

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/7/2003 1:48:30 PM   
gcb



Posts: 2419
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline 		The first "Monster" plane I saw was a friend with a plane he had designed. It had a constant chord wing (which he had added to) and sported a Forster 99 (on glow) and two Fox .35's. He did it as a lark. He could fly the pattern with it but it was a hand full. That was in about 1957.

George

(in reply to tipo750)
       Post #: 10

Bad True Story.... - 10/7/2003 2:57:52 PM   
littlefly



Posts: 90
Joined: 1/20/2002
From: Crawfordville, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Hey Guys:

Back in 1961 there was an airforce Seargent Snooks stationed in Warner Robins, Georgia who flew control line with the Macon Propdusters. He had a scratchbuilt 4 engine Globemaster transport with bolt on wing tips. Powered by 4 'redhead' McCoy .35s. He flew it on 70 ft. 7 strand braided stainless lines with a HOTROCK handle.
Running them solid '4 cycle' He had to lean back to hang onto it. Everyone kept telling him that if he was intent on flying that plane to get a U-Reely and ditch that POS handle.

One Sunday while he was flying it the the unthinkables happened; Those McCoys leaned out and it started pulling. That garbage handle broke and broke two of his fingers as the center cable came out of his hand.

The Globemaster looked and sounded like the real thing as it gracefully arced up and out into a sycamore treetop. My mother was sitting in a lawn chair under the tree.
Several of the guys scaled the tree and 'ragged' the running engines and cut the remains of the plane down with wire cutters.

You gonna fly big control line? GET A U-REELY AND SAFETY STRAP. Take great care of your lines and keep them kink free.

TRUE STORY


_____________________________

littlefly
I fly smallfry!!

(in reply to gcb)
       Post #: 11

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/7/2003 5:54:40 PM   
Hossfly



Posts: 3841
Joined: 12/3/2001
From: New Caney, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Elwyn

I think the rules are actually 70 feet maximum length from the handle to the centerline on the plane. I could be remembering wrong though.



Elwyn, you remember very well.

AMA for CL scale, speed, and stunt, the "Rule-Book" does say the 70' is maximum length.
However not all flying needs to be AMA competition rules.

The last several years I flew competition stunt, I liked my GA rebuilt ST 40 and my own well broken-in Fox .40. Both were excellent stunt engines using Fox 5%N / 29% castor fuel.
However at the '71 NATs I let the Testor man persuade me to use the new about to be released McCoy gray case 40. That is a whole 'nother funny story and lines were not a part of my final chance to place at the NATs.

I flew a highly modified Thunderbird for competition until I got back to TX, then most meets in the San Antonio area were judged by GA. I started flying a Nobler with cosmetic changes. Score went "UP" .
I flew my own designs in last several years of CL Stunt up in Chicago area. I liked 66' lines which kind of suited my own reaction and times. I do miss CL Stunt and have been looking at my old plans for that MIG I flew back then. Maybe???

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< Message edited by Hossfly -- 10/7/2003 1:02:27 PM >

_____________________________

Horrace Cain.
AMA Life L-93, Leader and CD for 45 years
Official Candidate: AMA Ex. Vice Pres. Vote H. Cain. Help move AMA into 21st Century
The only source of knowledge is experience. Albert Einstein

(in reply to Elwyn)
       Post #: 12

RE: Bad True Story.... - 10/8/2003 6:36:52 AM   
Kiwi



Posts: 26
Joined: 3/7/2003
From: The Alamo City, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Let's make very certain everyone knows better than to accept the idea of a "U-Reely" as a "SAFE" alternative to an EZ-Just! The brake didn't always engage correctly, and any of them still around are now so old that the brake probably is less dependable than it ever was! For a heavy load such as the C-124's that were popular multi- engine scale models, a Brodak Acu-Just is very sturdy, as is the overlarge RSM CL handle.

The original WOODEN EZ-Justs, as well as the more recently made wooden replicas that Riley was selling, would all have been more than adequately sturdy.


Kiwi

**

(in reply to littlefly)
       Post #: 13

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/8/2003 7:51:05 AM   
William Robison



Posts: 20269
Joined: 11/10/2002
From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Kiwi:

If you have a complete U-Reely, there is a crossbolt safety that blocks the crank, and the brake is not holding the line drum at all when the crossbolt is used.

And what's more, I like my E-Z Just standard handle and my E-Z Just "Hot Rock" handle too. Both red plastic.

For general sporty flying I like the U-Barrely, but its weight is a bit much when I'm trying to be precise. And in addition, with the E-Z Just you can center the handle, the U-Reely has no adjustment for uneven lines. Been my experience that when the lines are trimmed at, say 60' they are uneven at 50' and 70' leaving you holding the handle pointed up or down to compensate.

Bill.


_____________________________

Real Airplanes have Two Engines
AMA 25139 - More than 40 years.

(in reply to tipo750)
       Post #: 14

RE: asking stunt pilots - 10/8/2003 8:04:13 AM   
big max 1935


 

Posts: 1668
Joined: 11/22/2002
From: huron s.d.
Status: offline 		All the "U-Reely's" I had all had the locking pin that hit the handle , The early ones were a retro-fit. I had a Jetco Mooney Mite that I tried to fly on a 100 ft lines but discovered that when the lines were all out one got shorter or longer & caused instant re-kitting. Those hold your plane by the wing tip & let out the lines was always good for a laugh with new guys, either got dizzy & fell over or pulled the bell crank out through the wing . Good memories? MAX H.

(in reply to tipo750)