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All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Control Lines >> Hand launch blues
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Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 1:09:43 PM   
DoubleUgly



Posts: 33
Joined: 10/8/2003
From: Erlanger, KY, USA
Status: offline 		OK Kids I am new to the C/L world (been in it for 2 months) and started with the "trainer" 1/2A Baby Lightning Streak. Can anyone explain to me why she without fail always comes in towards the pilot and crashes every time. The last time breaking the engine a black widow clean off and essentially ruining the plane. This is more than frustrating. I built the kit per specs and had the 1/4 oz weight in the outboard wing. She had both rudder and engine off set to pull outside and the lines where as per spec 35 ft. long. The hand launch was from about 5 feet up lines tight and thrown like a dart straight ahead. All she simply did was bank in towads me (the pilot....guy holding the handle sence it did not fly) and then corkscrewed right into the ground. I am now building a Jr. Lightning Streak but I am not too modivated right now due to the ZERO flight time I have had with C/L planes. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong???? Thanks

D.
       Post #: 1

RE: Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 2:44:55 PM   
catdaddy2


 

Posts: 17
Joined: 10/17/2002
From: Skiatook, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Are you launching from downwind? Never takeoff into the wind with a 1/2a CL plane.
Wind should be at your back. Have you tried ROG? If so, was it the same results?

(in reply to DoubleUgly)
       Post #: 2

RE: Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 3:01:50 PM   
Bigiron13



Posts: 13
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: KS
Status: offline 		Several questions here. Where are you launching the plane in relation to the wind? What type of lines? Dacron or steel and what diameter if they are steel? What prop and is the engine putting out plenty of power? (it should be able to almost pull the plane straight up ).
You should not throw the plane like a dart. The launcher should hold the plane out in front of him with the left hand. Hand grasping the plane from the top , by the fuselage at the point above the wing spar(about the cockpit area) and then taking a step forward, push the plane forward and in a slight nose up position (not much nose high as too much will cause the plane to turn in) At the time the the launcher releases the plane, the pilot should lead the plane with the handle much like swinging a rock on a string (this is called whipping) to help accelerate the plane up to speed. Give no up control at the launch and only minor control changes immediately after launch (to correct climbing or diving) You should be approximately 30 degrees to the right side of downwind when the plane is released (tail slightly into the wind) so that by the time the plane comes into the wind it will have enough speed to have some pull on the lines and the rudder to be effective. Check the engine and BE SURE THAT IT HAS SOME OFFSET (OUT THRUST) toward the outside of the circle (this aids in keeping the lines tight during launch).
The nose breaking off the Streak should be fairly easy to repair. At least you can build a new Fuselage for the wing and tail to fit on.

OH yes, one last thing-- Be sure that the balance point is at least where the plans and instructions say it should be. If the plane is tail heavy, it will not fly well. You might even balance it about 1/4 to 1/2 inch forward of the plan location until you get used to flying the plane around.

Bigiron

(in reply to DoubleUgly)
       Post #: 3

RE: Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 3:38:50 PM   
DoubleUgly



Posts: 33
Joined: 10/8/2003
From: Erlanger, KY, USA
Status: offline 		Well lets see The launch sounds like it was a bit botched. The wind was L & V so it really was not a factor. I did have it launched with the predomiate wind at its 6.
The engine was trimmed out and the prop was a nylon 5.5 X 3 masterairscrew which is no more. It had pleanty of pull but I never got any positive feed back on the control lines. The lines where steel and the .015 X 35ft. I did not have gear on the plane as it is easier to find a grass field to fly in rather than a parking lot . Plus grass is a bit more forgiving than AS or concrete. I did try to back up a bit and pull the plane as it faultered but it was not enough she augered in anyway. Perhaps I should put the gear on her and round file the whole hand launch idea anyway. Is there anyway to fly CL by yourself it is a bit of pain to find someone to help me. Thanks for all of your help It is kinda of hard to figure out what happened not seeing it happen. I can only attribute it to inexpericance. Thanks Gentalmen

D.

< Message edited by DoubleUgly -- 10/8/2003 3:40:24 PM >

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RE: Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 4:57:58 PM   
ZAGNUT



Posts: 2436
Joined: 2/26/2003
From: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		i'm not really an expert on c/l but i think the .015 lines are much too heavy for 1/2A. i use .008 lines and have no probs.

i fly alone and have came up with a system that works pretty good and is real simple. into the ground i stake a small piece of u channel that's drilled for a wire pin. the pin goes through the ears in the channel and a loop in the tail skid wire. when i'm ready to go i just pull a long string thats tied to the pin.

i'm sure there's some ready made contraption for flying alone but i'm happy with my system.

dave

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RE: Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 5:23:30 PM   
Bigiron13



Posts: 13
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: KS
Status: offline 		Even .012 lines would be much better than the 015s. Remember, the plane is trying to accelerate while the lines are trying to remain at rest. Check your CG and engine offset.
Bigiron

< Message edited by Bigiron13 -- 10/8/2003 5:24:09 PM >

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       Post #: 6

RE: Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 6:21:45 PM   
DoubleUgly



Posts: 33
Joined: 10/8/2003
From: Erlanger, KY, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Gentalmen I shall have to effect those changes and try again. I will look for the small Dia. Wire what do you guys think of the non steel lines they are much cheaper and do not "kink-up" like there steel counterparts. Its called Tufstrand synthetic control line cable and is meant to be liter than steel too.

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       Post #: 7

RE: Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 7:29:33 PM   
Bigiron13



Posts: 13
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: KS
Status: offline 		The "tuf-strand is much too draggy. Go to the hobby shop and get two spools of Dacron 1/2 A line. They have 52 feet each so you will have to cut 35 feet off each spool. A product called spider wire is also good and can be bought at the sporting goods department of Wal-Mart.
Bigiron

< Message edited by Bigiron13 -- 10/8/2003 8:23:24 PM >

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RE: Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 7:32:40 PM   
gcb



Posts: 2473
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline 		D.
I have not tried Tufstrand but from previous internet discussions that is for .35 and above sized planes.
You could use about 20# Spyderwire fishing line or an equivalent brand or the Dacron line found at most hobby shops. The .008 steel wire usually gives better response with less drag.
You have a double problem with the .015 lines. First is way excessive drag and the other is excessive weight. Steel .015 lines are used for a plane with up to a .40 engine (but about twice as long...60 or 70ft).
Steel lines (esp. .008) need much care when using them to avoid kinks (sharp bends). With so much to learn at first, I would suggest Spyderwire until you have some flights under your belt.
What size engine will you use in the Jr. Lightning Streak?
If possible, find some flyers in your area that can provide help. Most are always willing to help a new flyer.
Good luck,
George

(in reply to DoubleUgly)
       Post #: 9

RE: Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 7:56:31 PM   
DoubleUgly



Posts: 33
Joined: 10/8/2003
From: Erlanger, KY, USA
Status: offline 		I was looking to put an Enya 19 on it as I had one from a friend who has been flying for many a year but there is a lot of end play in the prop shaft so I may go with a OS LA .15. Now I understand why I had to make my own lines in size .015 as I could not find them the 35ft length. Its the obious things that get by ya sometimes.

Once I get the Baby Lightning patched up and re-covered with some skyloft rather than lite silkspan that came with the kit I will have to make a pillgamage up to the AMA headquarters in Muncie, IN and see if I can't get some more 1/2A pearls of wisdom. Thank you all very much who have answered my questions; now I do not feel so bad. I though my plane was at fault but it was a simple weight and drag problem with the wires.

< Message edited by DoubleUgly -- 10/8/2003 2:57:32 PM >

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RE: Hand launch blues - 10/8/2003 8:34:16 PM   
Bigiron13



Posts: 13
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: KS
Status: offline 		Double, Something that you just said has flagged me to another possibility.
WARPS!! Block the tail of the plane up so that you can stand back about 10 to 15 feet behind the plane and look at the trailing edge and see if it is parallel with the top spar. Or does it appear to droop out toward the tip or slant upwards. It should be parallel with the spars when viewed from the rear. A warp down in the trailing edge of the outboard wing will DEFINITELY cause what you are experiencing. Likewise a warp upward on the inboard wing will cause the same thing but usually not as pronounced as one in the OB wing. Take a look and see if you have a warp.
Bigiron

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RE: Hand launch blues - 10/9/2003 2:17:48 AM   
Clean



Posts: 994
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Parkville, MO, USA
Status: offline 		For video of launches and plans to a tough little trainer, go to www.aeromaniacs.com and look at the platter. You can learn the basic principles with this ship, then move to the streak and then move on up.

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RE: Hand launch blues - 10/9/2003 12:40:50 PM   
DoubleUgly



Posts: 33
Joined: 10/8/2003
From: Erlanger, KY, USA
Status: offline 		No warps in the baby lightning Bigiron13 I did have a flightstreak that was like that but I am still working on getting that airframe straight. The lightning Streak is as straight as it can be.

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RE: Hand launch blues - 10/9/2003 4:30:15 PM   
gcb



Posts: 2473
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoubleUgly

...but there is a lot of end play in the prop shaft so I may go with a OS LA .15...


D. Do you mean front to back play or up and down? If it's front to back it may have been caused by using an electric starter. I would suggest bench-running the engine and see if it leaks badly out the front of the shaft. It may be OK.

quote:


...I will have to make a pillgamage up to the AMA headquarters in Muncie, IN and see if I can't get some more 1/2A pearls of wisdom...


D. It's been so long since I moved from Lexington that I don't remember where Erlanger is located...just remember the name.
There are CL flyers in Lexington, Louisville, and Bardstown that I know of. Probably lots of others. Perhaps your nearest hobby shop could put you in touch. Another source would be to search the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) web site for the club nearest you.
Another possibility would be a book titled, "Building and Flying Control Line Model Aircraft" by Dick Sarpolus. Also there are a couple of Videos on building and flying 1/2 A (.049) models.
Keep us posted with your progress.

George

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