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red - 10/10/2003 11:24:43 PM   
rclooney



Posts: 447
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: southport, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		To save on money, will red diesel work in a model engine. as it is acualy oil, it will lube the engine aswell as fueling it with no additives. as in the UK red diesel is only 39pence a litre, cheaper that 10 pounds a litre for the model stuff. we have a large bayliner fishing boat with 50 gallons of red diesel in the tank. as its not being used for a while, i cound pinch some if it will work. sorry, i blabbled on again.
       Post #: 1

RE: red - 10/11/2003 1:21:22 AM   
Hobbsy



Posts: 10379
Joined: 12/2/2001
From: Colonial Beach, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I guess that by Red Diesel fuel you mean commercial Diesel fuel. The model Diesel does not have nearly enough compression pressure to fire it. Model Diesel fuel is a mixture of kerosene, ether, lube oil and an ignition enhancer. By way of comparison, I tried to run my Saito .80 with 13.4 to one compression ratio and it had too much compression and could not be run beyond half throttle without sounding like it was going to blow the cylinder off.

< Message edited by hobbsy -- 10/11/2003 1:23:30 AM >

_____________________________

Giant Saito, 73.2 Cu. In., 70.5HP @ 5,800 rpm, 79 ft. lbs torque @ 3,500 rpm, 57 mpg, 3.50 bore, 3.81 stroke. 563 lbs.

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RE: red - 10/11/2003 1:32:01 AM   
David Cutler



Posts: 2163
Joined: 9/13/2002
From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
Status: offline 		No red diesel won't work in a model diesel engine.

Model diesel engines are mainly ether and oil, which has a low enough flash point to work with a model engine. Derv (or the non-taxed version, red diesel fuel) won't work at all.

-David C.

< Message edited by David Cutler -- 10/10/2003 8:33:07 PM >

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       Post #: 3

RE: red - 10/11/2003 9:27:04 AM   
rclooney



Posts: 447
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: southport, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		is there a cheaper alternitive to model diesel then.

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RE: red - 10/11/2003 9:32:04 AM   
rclooney



Posts: 447
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: southport, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		by the way, the commercial diesel in the uk is dyed red to stain the side of vehicles and whoever tries to put it in. will vegitable oil work like in cars??????

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       Post #: 5

RE: red - 10/11/2003 9:51:20 PM   
maxtenet



Posts: 703
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: Towson, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Actually it will work, but the power is very poor, the stench disgusting and black soot gets all over everything. I accidentally used some thinking it was kerosene because they smell kinda the same. I had a helluva time starting my PAW .35, had to use a starter, and then it ran terribly. I was completely dumbfounded and finally my dad came out and said, "what's with all the cussing?" When he saw the five gallon tank that usually holds kerosene he said, "Oh, I had to use that to get diesel fuel today because I couldn't find the regular diesel tank. " THANKS A LOT, DAD. Anyway, it didn't ruin the engine but it sure was a mess.


Max

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RE: red - 10/11/2003 10:24:49 PM   
ajcoholic



Posts: 4018
Joined: 6/22/2002
From: Kirkland Lake, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		Our company truck is diesel. I have used our truck diesel to replace kerosene in my own hime brew fuel many times, and without much if any difference (other than the smell).

I dont want to argue the point with anyone, but it did work for me very well, many many times. I mix my fuel the exact same proportions of ether/castor/MEKP also, just replaced the kerosene with truck diesel.

I have been told many times it doesnt work, but, it does

AJC


_____________________________

Andrew J. Coholic
Engine reviewer for FLY RC Magazine - andrewc@flyrc.com

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RE: red - 10/11/2003 10:31:03 PM   
rclooney



Posts: 447
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: southport, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		as i am new to diesel, i wont argue (much). i wante toi use diesel on its own as it is an oil itsself.

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RE: red - 10/11/2003 11:28:51 PM   
Elwood



Posts: 1512
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Wayne, NJ,
Status: offline 		Atomization is the issue. Diesel fuel does not atomize quite well out of a needle valve. On a truck engine the diesel is pumped at over 1000 PSI and atomized by the injector. Our engines don't have a fuel injection system, and can only let the fuel dribble in.

Ether is used to kick off the ignition. Without it the fuel has a tough time lighting up when it is in big droplets.

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       Post #: 9

RE: red - 10/11/2003 11:51:32 PM   
gcb



Posts: 2317
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rclooney
as i am new to diesel, i wont argue (much). i wante toi use diesel on its own as it is an oil itsself.

Since you are new to diesels I would suggest using commercial model diesel fuel until you have learned to run your engine and break it in properly.
You will probably have enough trouble without having to suspect faulty fuel.
After you are familiar with the engine, mix to your heart's content. I would caution you though that many combinations have been tried and most go back to standard formulae.

George

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       Post #: 10

RE: red - 10/12/2003 12:05:28 AM   
ajcoholic



Posts: 4018
Joined: 6/22/2002
From: Kirkland Lake, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		The diesel (or kerosene, or jet A for thatmatter )will NOT work without the ether, and definitely not provide the lubrication needed. Yes, Kero is a decent lubrication but NOT when it is burning... remember in the engine the fuel burns and the oil doesnt. Its the oil passing through the engine that both cools and lubes the parts.


_____________________________

Andrew J. Coholic
Engine reviewer for FLY RC Magazine - andrewc@flyrc.com

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       Post #: 11

RE: red - 10/12/2003 10:31:51 PM   
rclooney



Posts: 447
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: southport, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		i cant run the engine i have in as it is ancient and looks as if its run many times before. i have said before (i think) that it is going in a hovercraft with very little engien access. i am using a diesel as i have found thay are wery cool runnung co it wont overheat in a small craft and the touque off it. i need to turn a 1.5ft car rad fan to provide lift. the engine will also have to charge up the nicad/himh batteries for the rc gear and the hundreds of fans on it.

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       Post #: 12

RE: red - 10/13/2003 6:29:11 AM   
gcb



Posts: 2317
Joined: 10/24/2002
From: Port Ewen, NY, USA
Status: offline 		rclooney,
I assume you are designing the hovercraft. You might consider contacting Fox manufacturing Co. (the makers of Fox engines). Many years ago Duke fox made some hovercraft to play with, all powered by Fox engines. One he rode around his shop. They may have some information they can send you. I think a car radiator fan is a bit heavy. You might want to consider something like a wooden hub and thin plywood blades.
Keep us posted on your progress. The project sounds interesting. Good luck with it.

George

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       Post #: 13

RE: red - 10/13/2003 8:23:38 AM   
rclooney



Posts: 447
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: southport, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		the fan without the motor is not very heavy. its that huge motor that gives it all the weight. it is lighter than a large 4 bladed wooden plane prop.

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       Post #: 14

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