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All Forums >> RC Cars, Buggies, Trucks, Tanks and more >> RC Car General Discussions >> RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or nitrous experience.
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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or n... - 3/21/2005 7:53 PM   
46u



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Status: offline 		Here is a company that sells super chargers but from what I have read they are a waste of money.
http://rbinnovations.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/21

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or n... - 3/21/2005 11:59 PM   
J.Brown



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quote:

ORIGINAL: -_blood-lust_-

ok im sitting hear loveing this topic! but im totaly confused now lol!

can u buy turbo's for a nitro engine? the things that make a mint whisteling noise and you get turbo lag with on real cars. And can u get super chargers? and **** wit a blower? is it just some haggerd american way of sayin turbo or superchanger lol? like pants = a pair of jeans and chips = crisps? if u aint guessed im from da uk.
ta


Blower is another way of saying supercharger but not turbo. Mainly cause a supercharger is a blower lol it's blowing outside air into the motor. There are 3 types of blowers too an usually if your saying blower your meaning you have one of 2 of the 3 types that is a roots or screw style. Atleast that's what i've always noticed but that could be just around here. All those in that link above seem to be the centrifugal chargers which is kinda like a turbo only it uses a belt instead of the cars exhaust to make boost and it's not a positive displacement blower like the roots an screw style.


That'd be cool to have a blower or turbo on a little nitro car but i don't think it'd really be worth the money, just buy a bigger motor.

< Message edited by J.Brown -- 3/22/2005 4:34 AM >

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or n... - 3/22/2005 10:15 PM   
Mopzilla



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Status: offline 		Relax people, just save up and get yourself a bigger, better 2-stroke engine, and forget all this crap about superchargers and turbochargers. The problem is that with a 2-stroke engine, the intake and exhaust ports are both open at the same time, which means that if you supercharge it (force air into the intake) it will blow right out through the exhaust, and the engine will go lean since all the fuel will be pushed out. Same with a turbo, it pulls on the exhaust. In a 2-stroke this would amount to a huge waste of fuel and period of running extra lean, which is harmful to the engine. So if you want the most in efficiency and torque, and want to apply super and turbo chargers, buy an OS 4-stroke engine. Remember, there is no replacement for displacement.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/17/2005 11:46 PM   
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Status: offline 		This post is going to be a long one, but let me clarify a few things here; first of all the 2 stroke engines used in most RC cars/planes/boats are self-charging, meaning that once air/fuel enters the crankcase it is trapped by the closing of the crank port and the already closed intake ports of the piston sleeve. As the piston travels down in the piston sleeve it compresses the fuel/air charge in the crankcase and pressurizes it. When the intake port(s) open on the piston sleeve the pressure in the crankcase and the downward travel of the piston force the air/fuel charge into the cylinder which inturn forces the exhaust gases out through the exhaust port. What most people don't understand about the combustion of nitromethane is that even after the exhaust port initially opens combustion is still taking place, which is why engines that run nitromethane have such a "cacling" exhaust note. The explosion that is taking place in the cylinder then travels into the exhaust pipe (tuned pipe) and is reflected back into the exhaust header where it is met by excess air/fuel escaping through the exhaust port. Some of the escaping air/fuel charge is forced back into the cylinder, but much of it is wasted as the exhaust port closes. The designers of modern 2 stroke RC engines were not fools, very precise timing of all components was needed to achieve the power levels of modern engines, so in response to the opinion that 2 stroke engines can't be turbocharged or supercharged, YES they can. Not only that, but super/turbocharging a 2 stroke engine could increase efficiency twofold. 1: more air/fuel would be combusted; 2: a more powerfull explosion would increase exhaust pressures forcing more air/fuel back into the cylinder. As for the value of RB innovation's "blower", it's hardly worth the aluminum it's machined from. It doesn't actually produce any boost, all it does is speed up the air entering the engine, similar to the way a roots blower operates. The rubber "belt" that connects the blower pulley to the flywheel is far too flimsy to hold any tension, causing the pulley to slip under any speed above idle. In most cases RB innovation's blower can actually be a hinderance to airflow. Lastly a turbocharger doesn't "pull" on the exhaust, it's driven by it. If you need proof look up any automotive design manual or talk to any competent (meaning not an import tuner) mechanic or proffesional engine builder. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just trying to set things straight.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/18/2005 3:25 AM   
J_D



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Status: offline 		superchargers have been around for years, in 4 stroke RC air plane engines...

in cars, I'm not too sure tho

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/18/2005 3:45 AM   
46u



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Status: offline 		When it comes to 4 cycles and 2 cycles it is like comparing apples with oranges. 4 cycles have valves and 2 cycles have ports, which makes it a big difference.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/19/2005 7:35 PM   
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Status: offline 		True, so the best way to make power through forced induction would be on a 4 stroke since the air forced in stays in. If a 4 stroke and a 2 stroke of equal displacement and roughly equal power were super/turbocharged the 4 stroke would tend to make more power because it would retain more of the charge and burn the mix more thoroughly. Since horsepower is torque multiplied by RPM the 2 stroke would make more horsepower, but the additional torque produced by the 4 stroke would outweigh the power made by the 2 stroke in terms of moving ability. Some day I'd like to see a top fuel dragster go up against a 2 stroke-powered dragster just to see what would happen. It probably wouldn't be much of a race though, since the top fuel dragster would get off the line much quicker than the low-torque 2 stroke.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/19/2005 7:57 PM   
46u



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Status: offline 		It is hard to compare the small model engines we run in our RC cars and truck to full size engines. Do not know how it is now but years ago when it came to motorcycles the 750cc 2 cycles ran and would beat the 1000cc 4-cycles in drag racing. Now this day and age with all the technology I do not think this would hold true. I no longer keep up with motorcycle racing I just ride not real fast just real far. I still feel that forced air induction on small RC 2 cycle engines is a big waste of time and money.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/19/2005 8:38 PM   
Moparman1


 

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Status: offline 		I wasn't really comparing RC engines to full scale engines, but you agree that a 4 stroke would get off the line quicker, don't you? I don't want to to get into the details, but the 4 stroke would reach it's horsepower potential quicker than the 2 stroke, (just like a diesel reaching it's torque potential before a gas engine) because it happens at a lower RPM, thus accelerating the vehicle quicker. I think that if someone designed a turbo/supercharger system for these engines that cost below $100 and delivered actual results, putting it on an RC engine would be less hassle than buying a larger engine that cost more and having to break it in. But what do I know, I'm just a gearhead and would like the extra work anyway.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/19/2005 9:57 PM   
46u



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Status: offline 		Yes I have been a gear head my self for over 40 years as now I am 51 and I agree with you about most of what you are saying. I have made my living for years as a motorcycle technician and machinist. But no I do not think it is feasible or would it work very well to put turbo or supercharger on these RC 2 cycle engines and there is sure no way to make one at a profit for under $100. If you do a search on this and other RC sites you will see where people have tried this by making there own set up and most if not all say it was a waste of time an money. I think you would be better off sending an engine to a person that ports and times these engines then force are induction. Remember I am talking about 2 cycle engines. Now with technology changing daily I cannot say what will happen in the future.
Thanks for the conversation.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/19/2005 10:43 PM   
cossie


 

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Status: offline 		superchargers or ram air or turbochargers dont work, it cant be done on nitro engines without valves

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/19/2005 11:52 PM   
Moparman1


 

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Status: offline 		Sorry if it takes a long time for me to send this post, my computer is a piece of crap and it keeps kicking me off the internet for some reason. Anyway, I don't have nearly the experience you do with cars (I'm now 19, started at 10) but I've worked on enough engines to know what their limits are. I've blown up my fair share of engines trying to convert them to running nitromethane or trying to eek the last ounce of boost out of a blower. Learning to properly port and polish these engines is actually what got me interested in turbo/supercharging them. What I've learned tells me there's no reason a turbo or supercharger wouldn't work on an RC engine effectively. I've been fooling around with turbo designs on a CAD program that can also compute machining costs for a while now (about a year) and so far I've managed to get the price down to $67 per turbo, but that doesn't include the shipping and additional equipment needed to make it a full kit. The design is still at least another year from being anywhere near functioning, but it looks promising. Pressure die casting some components helped bring costs down enormously, but the problem with this is that the materials that can be used in this process are limited and the castings have the potential to shatter at 50k+ RPM's. If anyone has suggestions on how to strengthen the castings without increasing cost much I am dying to hear your ideas.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/20/2005 12:12 AM   
46u



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Status: offline 		Good Luck.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/20/2005 1:46 AM   
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Status: offline 		BEFORE I WRITE THIS EVERYTHING IN QUOTES WAS TAKEN FROM THE MAGAZINE RC DRIVER ISSUE 22 October 2005 P. 126,127

When the writer for this magazine saw all the controvesry on the web about Nitrous systems in Rc cars, he had to test it.
This was a humid day and without the Nitrous his Savage went 29 MPH. With the Nitrous his car went 34 MPH. When he tried press the button right on the start the Savage would just flip over.

"The NX system works, and if you must have all the cool tech gadgets at whatever the cost, the system is for you."
This shows that it does work, it just isnt worth the Money but if you msut have it it does work.


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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/20/2005 1:48 AM   
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Status: offline 		P.S. The system he used was not home-made but can be bought by anyone from NX Express for $200 and that includes 3 Nitrous bottles, compression cylinder, nitrous solenoid, nitrous jet, feed tube, microswitch, toggle switch, 9-volt battery adapter,wire,fittings,decals, and instructions.


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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/20/2005 8:07 AM   
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Status: offline 		i dont know the power output by a turbo or anything, but that would look mint having a turbo on an rc car. And if you could have a dump valve aswell, that would be mint!!!!

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/20/2005 3:52 PM   
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Status: offline 		I designed a basic blowoff valve for it as well, the only problem with it is adjusting the spring tension to limit the boost level. Don't get excited though, like I said before certain parts are very brittle and can shatter under a load, which means chunks of metal being sucked into the engine and wreaking havoc. Until I can come up with a solution there's no chance I'm going to ruin another engine. So far the best I've come up with is hard-chrome plating the part, but this causes problems of it's own.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/20/2005 11:22 PM   
SS Nitro



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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ryan_rammstien

i dont know the power output by a turbo or anything, but that would look mint having a turbo on an rc car. And if you could have a dump valve aswell, that would be mint!!!!


I think the output of a turbo is 50% Is a dump valve the same as a wastegate? I know they call them wastegates on supras but it's called a dump valve for other types of car/trucks? You learn something everyday.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/21/2005 12:38 AM   
Moparman1


 

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Status: offline 		No, a wastegate and a dump valve aren't the same. There's 2 types of pressure control valves used on most vehicles, wastegate refers to systems that are diaphragm actuated and blowoff/dump valve or whatever you want to call it refers to systems that are spring actuated. The percentage a turbo can increase horsepower actually varies with the individual system. The turbos on most sport compacts (including Supras) can't increase horsepower beyond 30%.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/21/2005 12:42 AM   
Moparman1


 

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Status: offline 		Does anyone have suggestions on strengthening my turbo design? I guess I should start a thread of my own instead of taking up space on this one.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 9/21/2005 1:47 AM   
SS Nitro



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ORIGINAL: Moparman1

No, a wastegate and a dump valve aren't the same. There's 2 types of pressure control valves used on most vehicles, wastegate refers to systems that are diaphragm actuated and blowoff/dump valve or whatever you want to call it refers to systems that are spring actuated. The percentage a turbo can increase horsepower actually varies with the individual system. The turbos on most sport compacts (including Supras) can't increase horsepower beyond 30%.


thanks for the advice. You sure, I could of sworn it was 50% max. Too lazy to look it up.

< Message edited by SS Nitro -- 9/21/2005 1:49 AM >

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 10/1/2005 8:26 AM   
guver


 

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Status: offline 		Hmm, I should chime in here as it is very interesting thread.

When I got out of turbochargeing there was a company doing 2 strokes (with ignitions) The key seems to be to keep the pipe for scavenging and back superchargeing the cylinder from the exhaust side while in addition driving the turbo and increasing intake boost above ambient pressure.

The question of 2 strokes being turboed is that yes they can, and may not have the increase of a 4 sroke, but they are producing far more power anyways than a 4 stroke. No engine valves required. As far as doing a tiny rc nitro motor, I say of course it will work.

sorry mopar, I can't help with design material. You know lots for a 19 year old. Lots of turbo systems can increase 100% power. I am wondering about your 50K rpm as most autos with pressure lube can turn over 100K rpm. I supose 50 would be a lot for a non-lubed bearing?

< Message edited by guver -- 10/1/2005 6:36 PM >

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 10/1/2005 3:40 PM   
46u



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Status: offline 		I never said it could not be done and comparing the small engine we run to full size engines to me is like comparing apples with organs. But on the engines we run in our RC vehicles I still say it is a big waste of money and the gain would be very minimal. I think you would waste more fuel then it would be worth.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 10/1/2005 6:44 PM   
guver


 

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Status: offline 		I would agree that is a waste of time, but am also thankful if someone trie it out and lets us know how it goes. I have done so many "waste of time" experiments it ain't funny. Now I conclude that they may work, but I also know why they are a waste of time because I did all the labor just to find out.

ps I know that turbochargeing a 2 stroke driving the turbo before the pipe is a waste of time. The guys wanted to try it without the pipe, and this particular time I happened to be correct because I knew what the pipe was for, they thought to try it and was a complete flop. live and learn.

then there was the time we tried to run engine on vaporized gasoline and get incredible mileage, another flop. Liquid propane into engine , another flop.

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RE: Anyone with accual supercharger, intercooler, or ... - 10/1/2005 10:46 PM   
46u



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Status: offline 		I know there is at least one other thread on this form somewhere that a person did a turbo charger and their conclusion was it did not make that big of a difference. I would think if it were feasible that one of the many engine companies would have done it. But as we all no technology changes by the minute.

< Message edited by 46u -- 10/1/2005 10:47 PM >

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