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Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 10/26/2003 4:36 AM   
DSA.308



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Status: offline 		I am looking to purchase a new helicopter after about 300+ flights on my Kysho 46VR with OS50SX-H engine. I havent had a single crash, and am comfortable at this point to upgrade and feel comfortable and confident in my abilities to keep it in one piece aside from perhaps a mechanical failure, or perhaps the possibilty of crashing because of flying outside of my abilitys. I was actually looking at a very large Nitromethane powered heli (OS91C-Spec) or even possibly stepping right up to the pump and buying a turbine powered bird. I am looking at gasoline powered also. Obviously at the level of helis I am looking at "economy" isnt a issue in the least. I am looking at the Gasoline powered for the huge flight times (45MINUTES A TANK!) and of course the generally long life that comes with the Zenoah gas engines. I like the Nitro, but they are messy, generally have short flight times, and the fuel is SUPER expensive when you can burn through a couple gallons in a weekend! I am wondering what type of flight times the turbine heli are getting, the cost of the fuel, and the longevity of the engine/driveline/clutch systems currently available. I was particularly interested in the VARIO JETCOPTER SX model using the JET CAT HP5 Turbine. I dont think the $5,295.99 price for the mechanics and the $3,895.99 price for the turbine/ECU seems unreasonable, BUT I DO wonder what type of maintenance, and longevity I can expect after shelling out nearly 10GRAND for the complete unit. Anyone have experience with turbine units made by Jet Cat, and the type of mant. intervals I can expect to be doing? I intend to buy something that will provide a MINUMUM of maint. per flight. I like to take my time doing set ups, but once its put together, I like to wrench on my helis a minumum. Thanks for the feedback!

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RE: Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 10/27/2003 1:38 AM   
DSA.308



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Status: offline 		The service interval for all the Jet Cat turbines is 25 hours. To put it into perspective, to burn 10 gallons of nitro in a heli, with a avarage of 30 flights a gallon, and 10 minutes of flight time per tank, is 300 flights, or roughly 3 hours of flight time per 10 gallons.......So 25 hours of flight time at roughly 10 minutes a flight would be about 150 flights before maintenance is required, on the turbine.

< Message edited by TODD MARSH -- 10/27/2003 2:18:57 PM >

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RE: Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 10/27/2003 3:44 AM   
3DHELINUT



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Status: offline 		Todd, the jetcopter sx sell for 5,300.00 this included the HP5. your total cost would be 6,300.00 if you needed to purchase a new radio and gyro. the heli carries 2000 cc/ 60 oz of fuel and you will get flight times of 9.5 minutes. 5 gallons will give you 10 flights at 10.00 per 5 gallons of kero plus 1 quart of aeroshell 500 turbine oil mixed to the fuel. total cost of 16.00 per 5 gallons.

a 90 size glow runs for 9 minutes per 16 oz of glow fuel. = 8 flights per gallon @ $20.00 for 30% coolpower.

there is no cleanup for the turbine after you fly it.

25 hrs service interval = 167 9 minute flights.

How are you getting 30 flights per gallon? that is only 4.5 oz tank and you sure as hell are not getting 10 minutes on 4.5 oz of fuel. you have a 10 or 11 oz tak and you are only getting 12 to 13 flights per gallon. So you are burning 24 gallons of nitro per 25 hrs of airtime.

Gas helis run 25 minutes per tank (16oz) and you need to add 2 stroke oils at 50:1 mixture 2.5oz per gallon


break down on flight costs per gallon of fuel

Glow (90 size) 8 flights = $20.00 (30%)
Gas 8 flights = $2.75
turbine 2 flights = $3.00

now add in the amount of glow plugs that will burn out @ 5.00 each
now add in the amount of spark plugs that will burn out @ 6.00 each

i have 7 hrs logged on my Jetcopter and i have only replaced one glow plug, the glow plug is only used to start the turbine.

Alan....

< Message edited by 3DHELI-NUT -- 10/26/2003 10:50:05 PM >

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RE: Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 10/27/2003 2:40 PM   
DSA.308



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Status: offline 		The tank on my 46VR is smaller than you might think. I need to figure out the excact amount it holds, but I do know for sure I am getting 9minutes45seconds of flight time without going into the header tank fuel supply by using the timer on my Futaba radio. I am glad you pointed out that the 5K price INCLUDES the HP5 kit also, because that changes everything. Did you assemble your Jet Copter, of did you have Vario do it and the set up for you? I noticed the set up charges and test flights were pretty reasonably priced, and considering they have probably put quite a few together, I might just let them do the dirty work and send me a RTR turbine heli. Looking at the prices now, I might just forego the .90 size nitro machine, and just step right into the turbine set-up. Life is short, so why mess with the stuff that costs half as much as the turbine unit!

What does the maint. cost at the 25 hour service interval?

< Message edited by TODD MARSH -- 10/27/2003 2:20:31 PM >

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RE: Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 10/28/2003 3:22 PM   
meldert


 

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Status: offline 		The tank on the VR46 is 280 ml (milli litre - metric scale...) I have no idea what that is in oz. but a rough estimate (no exact figures here) gives you almost 4 tanks on a litre and if i'm not mistaken there are about 4 litre on a gallon? Not shure there... But if Im right that would give you about 15 tanks per gallon.

On the other hand if a gallon equals 8 litres you will get your 30 flight to the gallon. Please could any american out there help and tell me how many litres you get to the (US) gallon.

Yes the tank on the concept 46VR is that small, its essentially a 30 size heli with an overzise engine and they didn't increase the tank size.

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RE: Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 10/28/2003 7:23 PM   
DSA.308



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Status: offline 		1 US gallon is equal to 3.78Liters.....Yes, the 46VR sure does have a tiny tank!

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RE: Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 10/28/2003 9:03 PM   
3DHELINUT



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Status: offline 		Todd 280 ml tank is 9.4679263 oz and that will get you 13.5 tanks per gallon (128 oz) also 3.75 liters to a gallon.

You will love the Jetcopter SX !

I purchased the jetcopter and did the setup myself, the price of the assembled and tested version is a good deal and you know it is setup the right way. Vario germany is also coming out with a new turbine helicopter called the XLV which is slightly larger then the Jetcopter SX. I think it will sell for around 6,000.00
I would also suggest that you get the speed up gear form Jetcat usa as this will bring your head speed up to 1400 rpm's. I am not sure of the maint. cost for the 25 hr interval but i would guess that it is around 200.00. i think that includes a bearing change, balancing and tuneup. you only return the turbine for service but i would included the ECU if there is an update available for it.



Alan....

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RE: Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 10/29/2003 2:08 AM   
DSA.308



Posts: 1493
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Status: offline 		Yea, I am leaning towards just getting the Jetcopter SX. I was actually considering it when I thought the Cost was closer to 8500, so now knowing its just a tick over five grand, changes everything costs wise. I imagine I might have them do the set up for me, but I am sure at some point I will have to learn also. It sure would be nice to simply fuel up, and fly. I was thinking of buying the add on that allows for a download of speed, altitude, etc. 3Dhelinut, did you get this option as well? Also, are you using, or do you know of, a redundant battery/Reciever system? At the level of cost, and risk of fire from a accident (propane!), I would like to get the absolute best form of protection I can get. I am looking at getting the Futaba 9Z radio, along with all futaba governer/servos/gyro/PCM-reciever(s). What type of equiptment are you using, 3dhelinut?

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RE: Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 11/3/2003 4:02 PM   
Mj


 

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Status: offline 		Todd, that runtime for 10 gals of fuel don't sound right to me.

If you have 10 gallons of fuel, get 30 flights per gallon and each flight lasts 10 mins, then we'll get this result:

10 mins x 30 flights = 300 mins per gallon

300 mins x 10 gallons = 3000 mins on 10 gallons.

3000/60 = 50 hours

So if your fuel consumption and tank size figures were accurate, you'd get 50 hours of runtime on 10 gallons of fuel.

Or, if the other guy is correct and you only get 13.5 flights per gallon, then it would be:

10 mins x 13.5 flight = 135 mins per gallon

135 mins x 10 gallons = 1350 mins on 10 gallons

1350/60 = 22.5 hours of flight time on 10 gallons.

< Message edited by Mj -- 11/3/2003 4:09:53 PM >

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RE: Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 11/4/2003 12:41 AM   
DSA.308



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Status: offline 		Yea, I think we allready went over this....twice......but thanks.

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RE: Turbine VS Gasoline VS Nitro-methane powered helis - 11/17/2003 4:51 AM   
wojtek


 

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Status: offline 		Todd,

the HP5 does not need a governor (the ECE is a governot in itself ) because the heli flies around at full throttle (constant headspeed), as for gyro, a futaba 401 is all you need on this bird .... somehting like a 502 or higher is better suited for 3d style nitro helis ... the Jetcopter is super !! i miss mine, as now its inside a bell230 fuselage .....


Wojtek

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