Ziroli twin Beech (Full Version)

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kevin mcgrath -> Ziroli twin Beech (11/3/2003 12:14:51 PM)

Im quite far into this project using a kit cutter kit.
Has anyone out there come up with a better alternative to the monkey motion linkage to the two rudders?
With all those bellcranks and connections between the servo and the rudders there just has to be excessive slop at the rudders by the time the servo motion gets there.
I have been contemplating burying two of those slim wing servos in the stab and connecting them directly to the rudders,but Im wary about every ounce I put in the tail end of this design....[sm=confused.gif]



M Gill -> RE: <span class= (11/3/2003 3:20:07 PM)

What is going to weigh less? The micro servos? Or the hardware and mounts associated with the bell cranks?

Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works



flyboy---2002 -> RE: <span class= (11/3/2003 4:08:46 PM)

I did put the rudder servos in the stab and had no problems. I used JR 911 servos. The little extra weight is worth it.



kevin mcgrath -> RE: <span class= (11/3/2003 4:18:27 PM)

Thanks gents........you just confirmed my thinking and Mace I think you are correct when one adds up the all up weight of a bellcrank system.Incidentally the kit Im building is one of yours and I must say the cutting and quality of the wood is very good......



ketil -> RE: <span class= (11/3/2003 8:28:50 PM)

I will also go fore the two servos fore the rudder.

Ketil



M Gill -> RE: <span class= (11/4/2003 1:41:37 PM)

Kevin,

I am glad to hear it. Let me know if you need anything.

Mace



kevin mcgrath -> RE: <span class= (11/4/2003 6:50:15 PM)

OK....you can tell me if the fin posts are tapered top and bottom,and if so do I taper the rudder post to match the fins?
Thanks.....[:D]



warbirdav8r -> RE: <span class= (11/5/2003 5:27:26 PM)

yes, the fin posts are tapered. taper the rudder to match it. sometimes i cut both pieces at once, [trailing edge of fin and leading edge of rudder ] makes the fit real easy.



kevin mcgrath -> RE: <span class= (11/6/2003 12:33:28 AM)

Thanks very much........I couldnt see that it would be any other way and I want to get the distinctive twin rudders of this design just right.
Is there a ply tab in the fin that is used to glue the fin to the stab?

Thanks........Kevin[:D]



M Gill -> RE: <span class= (11/7/2003 4:18:36 PM)

Opps, got to this one late! Thanks WarbirdAv8r.

Kevin, if you have any more questions, give me a call in the shop. That way I can have a look at the plans while you and I are on the phone.

(732)-356-8557

Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works



kevin mcgrath -> RE: <span class= (11/7/2003 4:51:50 PM)

Thanks Mace.I will call if I get stumped.......any feel for how much ballast needed for this design?



silver_cloud_3 -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (11/13/2007 10:07:32 PM)

can someone tell me where the CG on that Ziroli twin beech 18 is? just bought one from a guy, has one pouund on the nose; i read where someone has over 8 lbs, want to make sure before first (my) flight; thnx, ken



2engsout -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (11/14/2007 8:08:08 AM)

Hi Guys, Jim Nicosia in Minn has built and flown five of these, and has given me some great advise on the Ziroli D-18. I bought one almost RTF and it already has the servos mounted in the rudders. Thats the BEST place for them Kevin. Use the thin JR ones. To compensate, mount the elevator servo on the ceiling inside the cabin as far towards the cg as you want. Preferably foward of the trailing edge. I am using two, 40" long .157 O.D. carbon fiber tubes for a pushrod to get mine up at the cg. Mount the tailwheel steering servo on the inside bottom of the fuse directly behind the trailing edge with cables back to the wheel. This gets as much of the servo weight as far foward as possible which lessens the amount of lead you will need to get the cg between 10 and 10,1/2" behind the leading edge measured from the fuse side. A more accurate way to mark that cg is to measure back 2.25" to 2.75" behind the flat center area that is between the leading edges. Transfer that mark to the fuse saddle and parallel a fuse former up the inside of the fuse to the ceiling of the cabin and stick a pin thru the balsa. Now mark the top of the fuse and thats where your plum bob will need to hang. Jim was not too specific where his cg was within that 1/2" window, but I will start with 2.5" behind the flat section for the 1st flight. I am also going to make a fiberglass cup from heavy cloth, glassed to the front fuse plate that will conform to the inside of the plastic nose piece that will fit right over it. This will get my ballast as far foward as possible. I'll pour small lead shot in there to get my cg and then glass over it to seal it. If you do the math, the tail to cg to ballast ratio is approx 2.4 to 1. For every ounce you save in the tail, you need 2.4 oz. less in the nose to get you to the cg. I also fly a Ziroli P-38 and the DC-3. Hope this helps. Rick



N215PB -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (3/8/2008 3:24:08 PM)

Working on my 3rd Beech 18 model. Has anyone used Monokote on one of these? I'm having a extra hard time this model with glassing and wonder for future 18's if Monokote has been done, never tried it on a large planked machine my self. I used some glass cloth that had some fold creses in it........big mistake. Bought 2 G38's for her, started to prime it and will be painting in next 2 weeks, now i'm kinda priming and wet sanding to get a good finish with BONDO and squadron putty.



samparfitt -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (3/10/2008 4:09:36 AM)

Don't want to stir up a hornets nest but putting monokote on an IMAA legal scale plane is like buying an old house and wanting to paint the solid oak trim in the house: at the very least, a person should be horsewhiped for such sacrilege.



N215PB -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (3/10/2008 4:32:31 AM)

I kinda figured that, and who want sto give a good resin fibreglass fight anyway. Next question, is there any way to get a shorter prop hub/shft for the G38. My prop flange will be way to far out past cowl fronts.



lebjr -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (3/13/2008 9:53:40 PM)

anybody find jack stafford comanche



timothy thompson -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (3/13/2008 10:49:57 PM)

moneykote never stays down! glass adds strength if done right use finish epoxy thinned with 99% isopropyl alcohol and it will be thin. the alcohol evaps and leaves the glass on the balsa. second coat thin 50 % and then when dry sand and fill weave with red spot puttty. Been doing this for years always looks nice and lasts



iiiat -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (3/14/2008 5:12:03 AM)

I have to jump in here too. Just received my plans for the Ziroli D-18 yesterday. I'm listening to every tip! M Gill, I might need to be a customer of yours. I will build very close to plans. I want to use top quality wood in every instance. My strategy for saving weight is to use the best possible wood. And... I don't know... I kind of like the bellcranks! LOL They're sort of old and elegant like the twin Beech herself. Only, I will use carbon fiber pushrods, carbon fiber bellcranks, and good ball links etc. I don't expect any slop whatsoever. When the time comes, I may post the build on here as well. I'd do that for all the help I would get, but mostly for the pressure to build something every night! LOL But that's a ways off. I still have a lot of research and other learning to do.



N215PB -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (3/21/2008 2:10:25 AM)

Getting closer to a MAY debut on my Beech 18. I'm usung Zenoah G38's, question............ is there any type of a prop dome hub with the threaded bolt setup for the Zenoah prop shaft. I'd need a prop dome with the threaded bolt shaft on it. Also, using the 3rd fuel line filler option, anyone know who makes a nice flange for fill line that will lay flush with skin of model and then use a fuel dot plug to stop it.



cmoore806 -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (3/21/2008 2:32:27 AM)

I get my fuel dots from www.pspmfg.com. I recommend getting the spinners from tru-turn (www.tru-turn.com) you can select a spinner shape, size, and indicate what engine it is for to get it just right. Not cheap, but it gets the job done without hassle.




N215PB -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (3/31/2008 1:32:48 PM)

WHat are people doing for gear doors as far as actuators are concerned??? Any ideas?



2engsout -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (4/30/2008 8:03:30 AM)

Hi Guys, I thought I would keep mine simple with direct rods pulling and pushing them. I simply made a clamp for the strut and added balls to each side. Had to work out the geometry but it works. I also have my CG procedure For the Ziroli Beech 18 and instructional pics for anyone interested. Just PM me your email address subject D-18 CG. Rick



2engsout -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (7/26/2008 8:40:12 AM)

Hi Guys, here is the link to the maiden flight of my D-18 I made on 7-13-08.
Since the engines are completely cowled in and I was experimenting with
baffleing the airflow that comes thru between the cylinders of the dummy
engines, I set the needles way rich to aid the fuel cooling effect for the 1st
flight. With an intermitant 4 stroke,,,they don't sound in sync in the video,
but they should'nt overheat either...
Today, 7-16-2008 I ran up the engines in the garage, leaned the carbs, and set the
twin sync unit for a tighter "sync". "130 vs 250" rpms. Which means, when
both engines rpms are within"130" rpms of RX output rpm request, the twin sync
unit says "OK, thats close enough," and tells the throttle servos to stop
searching. They now sound like one engine running. My DC-3 is set at
"250" rpm and they sound just great. The stripped left airleron servo has been
fixed along with the stiff hinge that caused it. I also fixed the left wing panal flap pin. I have 4 flights on her now and it flys just great with the CG at 2.5" behind the rear cockpit bulkhead. My nose pitches down slightly with flaps deployed. I will post some pics soon.
This bird is going to Owatonna MN on the
8th of August. Rick 2engsout



> Go here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-909363091886670150
> <http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-909363091886670150&hl=en> &hl=en
>



2engsout -> RE: Ziroli twin Beech (7/26/2008 9:01:12 AM)

Hi Guys , here's some more pics. Hope you enjoyed the video. Rick



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