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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> 3D Flying! >> Zen 90 CG
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Zen 90 CG - 5/5/2002 9:06:38 AM   
radfly



Posts: 88
Joined: 5/5/2002
From: Florence, SC
Status: offline
I just completed construction of the Zen 90. Using a YS .91 up front.
Mounted a Dubro 16 oz tank on the CG, which is stated in the manual at 4 1/8" from LE. 1400 MaH nimh battey and thottle servo are mounted at F2 in front of the tank.
I have a full 8 oz of weigh added to nose to get CG within range. This seems a bit high to me.
Anyone else have this tail heavy problem with this plane?
Additionally, any one try to add fixed gear?
Thanks.
       Post #: 1

Zen 90 CG - 5/5/2002 10:09:14 AM   
furloughed ual



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From: Littleton, CO, USA
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I have the Zen 90 as well. I have a Saito 1.50 in the nose. I was slightly tail heavy to begin with also. I added approx 2 oz of lead on the firewall. After flying, I removed the lead completely. I am now approx 1" behind the recommended CG. In the initial flights, i had to push quite a bit when inverted. Now I only have a very slight push when inverted and the plane still tracks like it's on rails with no "hunting" that occurs with an aft CG. I had to add more right thrust and about 2* of down (I think it was down) thrust. Now I get good clean vertical lines. One other thing, I hope you do not fly off grass. The reason I say this is that they screwed up in the design of the landing gear position. When the gear is down, the axles are just about on the CG. I fly on pavement, and when I would taxi over crack or expansion joint, it would nose over and hit the prop, even while taxing with full up elevator. This is the only complaint I have with this plane. Otherwise, it is a very true flying plane. Landings are a breeze, being able to land on the tailwheel first on every landing. Although World models had had a bad rap for the retracts, I think you need to consider the source. I have about 20 flights on my Zen now and not a single problem with the retracts. Not to "float my own boat" here, but I am not at all hard on the landing gear on my planes. Let me know how it goes. One other thing...to help with the ground handling and to prevent nose overs while txing, I made a beanbag weight to put on the tail to get to and from the runway (a necessity unfortunately)...just make sure to remove before flight! Hope this helps.

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 2

Zen 90 CG - 5/6/2002 5:05:07 AM   
PineBaron



Posts: 217
Joined: 2/20/2002
From: Marlton, NJ, USA
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I flew my ZEN90 for the first time yesterday with a YS120, a wrap arond header from central hobbies and a Hatori Pipe, its awesome. There was no problem with balancing the CG, spot on with the battery mounted just ahead of the elevator servo. My setup is different as you can see with a heavy engine up front; I also installed an 18ox fuel tank, it was one that came with my H9 Edge540 where I installed a 24oz tank in the Edge.

Now the second problem about noseover on the ground. Yes I had the same problem as furloughed ual, however after stupidly adding an oz of weight in the tail did not help as in the air I required down trim, my good friend Eric Henderson the YS expert came to my rescue with a great idea; it was so simple that I just did not think of it just that moment even though I have the same solution in my ZEN50 (YS63). To cut a long story short: there are three things required.

1. Remove all four screws off the retract. Place a 1/16 - 1/8 plate or washers under the rearward mounting holes of the retract. I just used a couple of 1/16 washers at the field; this evening I am going to cut a plate out to increase the forward tilt. The plate will be brass or the stuff they sell in the LHS; cut it wide enough to fit under the rear mounting screws, drill two holes of the correct size for the screws to pass through. Make sure this step is done before the next step.

2. Remove the incredible amount of toe in the struts(I am still on the original retract (after just one day of flying), though I have a pair of D&B's ready for it). I did this at the field so you will need a tight grip on the coil portion of the strut first, bend the axle portion (with the wheel removed) as straight as possible; do this slowly as you do not want to break the strut. Make sure both the left and right are the same. I used a jaw grip to hold the coil and used a strong pair of large pliers to bend the axle. If you are not sure you can do this with the retracts in the plane, I suggest you remove the retracts and hold the coil in a vice.

3. Install the washers, plate and screws and also the wheels. With the wheels retracted you will notice there is some gap between the wheels and the front of the wheel well. You want to bend the struts just enough to permit easy movement of the struts using the servo. Do one wheel at a time. Test this with your rx switched on and use the retract sw up and down. If you have bent them too much the wheel will stick, bend the strut back just a bit or if there was still some gap, bend it forward just a bit. Do both wheels till they are perfect.

Well, the quick fix (it took me about 20mins at the field) made my life easier with decent ground handling. After I increase the tilt this evening I expect more improvement.

Other options are to use DB restracts, Dave Browns do not fit there; or Spring Air (they are expensive).

Let me know how you progress.

Vim

< Message edited by PineBaron -- May 6 2002 11:54PM >

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 3

Zen 90 CG - 5/6/2002 8:52:45 AM   
furloughed ual



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From: Littleton, CO, USA
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Had plans to shim my gear mounts also, just haven't done it yet. Pine Baron, how similar does the Zen 50 fly compared to it' big brother 90? Is it as smooth and precise or does it sufffer from "little plane syndrome"?

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 4

Zen 90 CG - 5/6/2002 10:06:16 AM   
dgrant



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Joined: 12/3/2001
From: Clovis, CA, USA
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A good friend of mine bought a Zen90, and had same issues about CG. He called the WorldModels, and was told the manual he has, is wrong. I sure don't recall the specs, he's a user here. I'm going to look up his name for sure, if you like, I'm sure he won't mind a message about this. He is one of the best with these planes. He also has a TaiJai.
His screen name is RCPilot7. He has this info.

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 5

Zen 90 CG - 5/6/2002 4:11:44 PM   
PineBaron



Posts: 217
Joined: 2/20/2002
From: Marlton, NJ, USA
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The ZEN50 is an absolute pleasure to fly; like on rails. You do need a good powerful motor; I use the YS63. Using a 2C46 etc just does not cut it in performance.

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 6

Thanks guys - 5/6/2002 5:02:45 PM   
radfly



Posts: 88
Joined: 5/5/2002
From: Florence, SC
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Like the sugguestions. I may opt for a fixed gear solution. Won't be able to play with it this week, but will try before too long.

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 7

Zen 90 CG - 5/7/2002 4:51:19 AM   
PineBaron



Posts: 217
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From: Marlton, NJ, USA
Status: offline
I flew the 90 this evening with the modified retracts, having replaced the washers from Saturday with a brass plate. End of noseover problem.
I did melt the rear pipe bracket slightly due to the heat generated by the engine and pipe; so there is some work to do later.

I would never change any of my pattern planes to fixed gear as they came with retracts and I love the sight of raising and lowering them. After adequate practise and 4 sets of retracts later (on my ZEN50) I have finally stopped damaging them on any of my models. I do fly off grass. When I land and the plane comes to a stop, I walk to the plane to retrieve it. Saves damage. I just have to land a little closer.

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 8

zen 90 cg - 5/21/2002 1:43:44 AM   
dougjohnson


 

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From: columbus,ohio
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the corrected cg of a world models zen 90 is 6.3 inches behind leading edge...that should help your cg problems

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 9

Zen 90 weight - 5/21/2002 10:52:24 AM   
furloughed ual



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From: Littleton, CO, USA
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FWIW, my Zen 90 comes in a 9 lbs 10 oz without fuel and a Saito 1.50. No modifications or weight saving done. I repalced the included enging mount with a Dave Brown mount and have 2 servos on the elevator instead of one. Plane will climb out of a hover here at 5400'. furloughed ual

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 10

Zen 90 CG - 5/21/2002 11:18:29 AM   
krayzc-RCU



Posts: 5928
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Kannapolis, NC, USA
Status: online
what are some of the links for the best prices on those Zen planes?

_____________________________

smooth as silk!

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 11

prices - 5/22/2002 6:27:25 PM   
furloughed ual



Posts: 665
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From: Littleton, CO, USA
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Got my Zen 90 at my LHS for $329. They also have the Zen 50 for $189. Seems most of the posts here have said the Zen 50 goes for about $225. I seriously doubt he would ship, unfortunately. I'm not sure who has the best prices on the net - somebody else know?

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 12

Prices - 5/22/2002 9:16:27 PM   
rdalcanto



Posts: 158
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: Salt Lake City, UT, USA
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I got my Zen 50 for $199 at my LHS. Go to [url]www.airborne-models.com,[/url] click on dealers, and see who they have near you. Give them a call. Hopefully they will have a better price in your area too.

Rick

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 13

CG - 5/24/2002 9:30:00 PM   
radfly



Posts: 88
Joined: 5/5/2002
From: Florence, SC
Status: offline
So, why is the published CG so far off? I have no problems attaining 6.3 inches, but was afraid to fly with it so far off from published.
You would think for the price, the could at least get the pub right.

(in reply to radfly)
       Post #: 14