K&B 65 Sportster (Full Version)

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tommy157 -> K&B 65 Sportster (11/4/2003 11:01:49 PM)

What is everyones opinion on this engine and what would be a good price for it?



JWN -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/4/2003 11:06:03 PM)

$3.00. They are exceptional fishing weights if you live near the coast.

John



tommy157 -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 12:03:07 AM)

Your information was neither informative or appreciated..but thanks anyway..NOT!!!



jessiej -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 12:20:07 AM)

I can not offer an opinion on market value. I can tell you that in my experience and that of others i have flown with they are reliable, user friendly engines. They do tend to take a bit of break in which doubtless does not appeal to the instant gratification crowd. I have noticed that this same group is quick to offer advice on subjects of which they have no knowlege.



JWN -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 12:25:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tommy157

Your information was neither informative or appreciated..but thanks anyway..NOT!!!


You asked for an opinion, and that's exactly what you received. If you didn't like it, I'm sorry but you did ask for it. Maybe next time you should ask for only postive opinions.

John



maxtenet -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 1:32:10 AM)

They are actually good engines. They do not have a liner and as such if you run lean and screw it up you need a new engine , not just a liner. Their performance is average and I would just as soon buy one of these as a generic chinese engine. Don't listen to those who have never had one. I have 2 and they are... well,...average just like O.S. engines


Max



J-3 -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 1:33:12 AM)

I have this engine new in the box, and I plan on using mine next season. I have collected about 20 user comments from the boards here. Send me an email and I will send you what I have.
briankretchmar@charter.net

Thanks...Brian



jessiej -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 1:46:44 AM)

[You asked for an opinion, and that's exactly what you received. If you didn't like it, I'm sorry but you did ask for it. Maybe next time you should ask for only postive opinions. ]


In my opinion your opinions would get more respect if you left out the sarcasm and included some evidence as to how you formed that opinion.

Thats just my opinion.



tommy157 -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 2:11:49 AM)

Thanks to all who responded...New to the sport and just looking for advice..thanks again...

Tommy



William Robison -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 8:34:53 AM)

Tommy:

The Sportster 65 is good, so long as you remember what it is. Not a screamer at all, but a good lugger.

As stated in an earlier post, avoid lean runs. Also, be sure to use at least a percentage of castor oil in tour fuel, they are plain bearing engines and need it. The lastthing, you will notice there are only four head screws, They go all the way through the cylinder fins, and screw into the crankcase. If you strip one, a new crankcase is the repair, so be careful.

Kept on the rich side of peak, with castor oil, and not oversped, they are good long lasting engines.

Final point - they have their own mechanical sound, unlike any other engine you've run. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong, it's just all the little men inside playing with their hammers. Feed them more methanol and castor oil, they'll keep on banging away.

Bill.



jsilvers -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 9:17:02 AM)

I have 1 of the 65 Sportster and 3 of the 61's. For the difference in price ($20-$25)
the 61 is a much better deal. The 65 has no cylinder sleeve and cannot be rebuilt.
It also has bushings rather than ball bearings and is a heavyweight.

The 61 ( I have the old style 6550) has ball bearings and is sleeved.
Both take a long break in ( at least 5 tanksrunning rich) but will run forever
after that if you take car of them.

I have not used the new twister 61, but hear it is a good engine also.

65's seem to go for $25 (well used) to $50-$75 (new).
61's $60-$75. Usually many of them on E-Bay.

Watch the pictures, many people confuse the 2.

I am a big fan of K&B and have had no problems with their engines.
I have had a couple serviced and their factory service is a little slow, but prices are good.

Joel Silverstein



William Robison -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 9:45:39 AM)

Joel:

I don't have any Sportsters any more, but I still have a dozen or so ringed K&B 61 engines types 6530, 6550, and two 6560 pumpers. I also have a potfull of the ringed 40s, 83xx series and 4011 types.

Yes, I like K&B, in case you wondered.

Bill.



sgilkey -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 1:38:30 PM)

I have run several .65 Sportsters and like them a lot. Fuel with 20% oil and some castor (I used 50% castor Sig 10% nitro fuel) is recommended. The carb is easy to set and I got good starting, idle, and throttling performance. I tried several props and for my application (sport aerobatic plane) the 13x6 APC was a great choice and gave tremendous thrust and vertical performance. I ran mine without the internal muffler baffle, which gave a significant boost in performance. Good luck!



tommy157 -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 2:31:51 PM)

Is the K&B 65 Sportster Ball bearing or not..was told it was when I bought it..

Tommy



JWN -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 5:14:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jessiej
In my opinion your opinions would get more respect if you left out the sarcasm and included some evidence as to how you formed that opinion.

Thats just my opinion.


That's fair enough. Why I don't like them. They are heavy for the power they put out. They are not even a plain bearing engine as they the crank shaft runs directly on the case. It doesn't even have bronze bushings. As others have pointed out, they also do not have a sleeve. The piston runs directly on the case. The engine will wear out very quickly if it ingests even a small amount of dust at which point you toss it and buy another since they are not rebuildable. They do not tolerate running hot at all such as the accidental lean run. While the cost is attractive at first glance, there are far better engines for just a few $'s more. Lastly, these types of engines are typically marketed towards the beginner. The last thing a beginner needs is a engine that is not tolerant of a beginners mistakes such as running lean. Yes, they do run well, but not great. Will they get the job done, more than likely. But why settle for one of these when there are far better choices available?

John



William Robison -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 6:30:50 PM)

JWN:

Some corrections.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWN
...the crank shaft runs directly on the case. It doesn't even have bronze bushings.


This is the way all but a very few Cox engines are built, they run forever. If run with castor oil, or a castor blend.

The early Sportsters did indeed run the crank directly in the aluminum, but the later engines, starting in the mid eighties, have a bronze bushing cast in the case. And just like the Cox engines, they must have some castor oil in the lube.

quote:

As others have pointed out, they also do not have a sleeve. The piston runs directly on the case. The engine will wear out very quickly if it ingests even a small amount of dust at which point you toss it and buy another since they are not rebuildable.


Another error. They can be repaired. Sportsters do have a sleeve, made in one piece with the cooling fins. And rather than having the piston and ring run directly on the aluminum, they are AAC design, as are many other engines, including the later design Saitos. Dust will eat the ring and piston, but I've never seen a Sportster or Saito cylinder worn out. Crash damage yes, improper service yes. Wear? No.

quote:

They do not tolerate running hot at all such as the accidental lean run.


They are as tolerant of lean runs as most other model engines, provided the castor lube is used. And far more tolerant of lean runs than the OS engines with their ABN sleeves.

quote:

While the cost is attractive at first glance, there are far better engines for just a few $'s more. Lastly, these types of engines are typically marketed towards the beginner. The last thing a beginner needs is a engine that is not tolerant of a beginners mistakes such as running lean. Yes, they do run well, but not great. Will they get the job done, more than likely. But why settle for one of these when there are far better choices available?

John


Now this last part is opinion, even your thoughts of lean run tolerance, and I can't speak for your opinions. But the Sportsters are built to a market, as you said, and fill their niche nicely.

Bill.



tommy157 -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 6:38:21 PM)

Thank you for that very informative response..

Tommy



jsilvers -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 7:07:50 PM)

I have run the heck out of a couple K&B 45 sportsters (same basic design as the 65). They last as long or longer
then any other engine in their price range. They are a tad heavy, but I think
they are a great beginner engine. Beginners are much more likely to cause
crash damange then anything else. You don't have a fortune invested in these,
they are very sturdy and, in my opinion require no more care than any other.

Joel Silverstein



JWN -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 7:49:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: William Robison
This is the way all but a very few Cox engines are built, they run forever. If run with castor oil, or a castor blend.


The instructions for the engine do not specify what type of oil is preferred. If the engine needs castor or castor blend, it should be pointed out in the owners manual.

quote:


The early Sportsters did indeed run the crank directly in the aluminum, but the later engines, starting in the mid eighties, have a bronze bushing cast in the case. And just like the Cox engines, they must have some castor oil in the lube.


The engines I observed were of the early variety. I was not aware of any design changes. Again, if castor is required, it needs to be pointed out in the instructions.

quote:


Another error. They can be repaired. Sportsters do have a sleeve, made in one piece with the cooling fins. And rather than having the piston and ring run directly on the aluminum, they are AAC design, as are many other engines, including the later design Saitos. Dust will eat the ring and piston, but I've never seen a Sportster or Saito cylinder worn out. Crash damage yes, improper service yes. Wear? No.


What you describe is what I have stated. There is no sleeve. The piston runs directly on the cylinder. There is a chrome plating, but no separate sleeve which can be removed. To repair the engine, you must replace the cylinder. Saito's have less chance of problems with this because there are no ports in the cylinder to trap a piece of debris on the corner of the piston as it travels up wards.

quote:


They are as tolerant of lean runs as most other model engines, provided the castor lube is used. And far more tolerant of lean runs than the OS engines with their ABN sleeves.


This is not what I have observed. There were several .45 and .65's in the club I belonged to at the time and it became quite regular to see one toasted in a single flight from a slightly lean mixture. Damage was usually centered around the crank to case running surfaces. You state the engine has been modified to include bushings. I can see where this was very smart move. The reference to the OS plating issue really belongs in a completely different thread. Their problem has nothing to do with the use of nickle but instead is a process problem as the nickle is not applied in a way to make it durable. There are several other engine manuf's using nickle who have zero peeling problems.

quote:


Now this last part is opinion, even your thoughts of lean run tolerance, and I can't speak for your opinions. But the Sportsters are built to a market, as you said, and fill their niche nicely.


Opinions are what were asked for, and this one is mine. I personally feel there are much better engines available for the price.

John



Sport_Pilot -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 8:59:30 PM)

IMO most of the bull that comes out to belittle good product the way the Sportsters were, comes from their competitors. Repeated at shows and competition over and over and over. Not as bad as it used to be, probably because of the internet. I would name names but this post would be deleted. Most of us know who.



JWN -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 9:06:52 PM)

I for one would love to know who you are referring to. I'm not a competitor of K&B's (Mecoa) or any other manuf at all. Just relating my observations of multiple examples of the engine at the field.

John



CCRC1 -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 10:24:01 PM)

tommy157, as several other posters have indicated, the .65 Sportster is not a high performance engine. That certainly does not mean that it is not a good, reliable engine that can provide steady performance to a scale or sport aircraft. I have a .65 sportster and found that it likes to be treated like a 4-stroke. Use a large prop, 13x5 or 14x5 for the best idle and torque output. Seal all of the muffler joints with high temp silicone seal (Permatex). I run Omega 10% and have had very good results with this fuel. I have noticed that almost every one of the sportsters like to leak fuel/oil through the front shaft. I believe this is how the engine lubricates the front bushing.
I can get a steady 9200 rpm from a 14x5 prop and 10300 rpm from a 13x5 with my engine. I have often thought that this engine would be ideal for a Senior Telemaster. Plenty of torque and good all around relible engine. Mine starts by hand with one or two flips and is very fuel efficient. This is also an excellent engine to convert over to diesel. Davis Diesel Products makes a conversion head to make the job easy.



Boomstriker -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/5/2003 11:08:01 PM)

I've owned a few K&Bs from long ago. Back then they were good engines.

I bought a .65 sportster recently for a float plane. It was cheap power for a 40 sized plane.

After a half gallon on the stand and a few plugs, it still got hot, loaded-up at mid throttle and had no more power than my .46 pro.
I stuck it in the plane anyway and had nothing but problems.
I assumed it was from the inverted install but it didn't get any better after going through the trouble to remount it upright and burning more fuel.

I had to get a rod & reel and got very good at casting for the plane after all the dead sticks and dieing in the middle of the drink.

I finally replaced it with a used TT61 from a swap meet.

Not a single deadstick, more power and reliable as the sunrise-- just like the rest of my TT's.

All I could get for the barely broke-in K&B was 30 bucks at the next meet.

I'll never own another.

Kirk



MikeSell -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/6/2003 1:18:20 PM)

I agree with those who look favorably at the K&B sportster line. The .65 does produce more torque than the .61. I agree that they are used with large props like a 4 stroke. They do like castor and do not like high nitro! (this information is in the instructions when it recommends the fuels to use.) Anything over 5% causes preignition with the recommended plug (that noise that sounds like little men with hammers). If you choose to use 15% nitro you will get overheating and loss of power described by previous respondents.
As stated before if you ever wear out the bore your replacement jug will cost no more than many others' sleeve and will make the engine look much newer. The omission of the sleeve allows better heat transfer to the fins.
I would use the .65 sportster for slow flying .60 size sport planes. The loop charged .61 is one of the most powerful .40 (weight) class engines available but I don't use mine on .60 size planes. The .61 twister may look unconventional but performs with some of the best .61 offerings.
I think one of the reasons for K&B's sellout a few years ago was peoples misunderstanding of their sportster line. The very competitive offerings, newly designed ABC .40, Screaming .48, and the .61 twister never really got wide acceptance before the company was "bought out"



bolar -> RE: K&B 65 Sportster (11/10/2003 4:38:50 PM)

The K&B .65 is a great engine. I have mine in a JU-52 (out board engines are dummies) that has been flying for over ten years now. I'm swinging a Master Airscrew 14X6 on the nose, which is perfect for this plane (9 lbs.). I usually burn Byron 10% with 18% oil. No problems what so ever with this engine. You will have to seal the muffler with silicon so it doesn't leak (something I now do with all my engines), but other than that I wouldn't trade this engine for an OS. Just my opinion [;)].



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