Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine

Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> User Product Reviews >> Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/4/2003 11:09:20 PM

Mike Ledbetter

Posts: 636
Joined: 6/18/2003
From: Carpinteria, CA, USA
Status: offline

This is my story.

Ordered Hangar 9 Ultra Stick 60 and MDS .68 motor from Horizon Hobbies, the distributor for H9 and MDS.

Ultra Stick comes with broken wing rib and motor comes with BIG crack in engine case. Also, they charge me sales tax although I live in a different state.

Call, email and snail mail them. Send motor back at my expense.

Bottom line: They "don't have" another MDS .68 (B***SH**), they will not credit my card back for the motor. All they will do is drop the innards into a new crankcase for me and send it when it is ready.

They will send me another wing if they can find one around. They will not pay my return postage on the motor. And they have no excuse on the sales tax.

I told them the engine better run like a watch and that they have seen the last of my dollars. I also told them I would not let anyone I know spend any money there if I can help it.

Thanks for reading. This is the company from satan's hometown, IMHO. I wonder if this plane will EVER fly?

Regards.

Post #: 1

RE: Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/5/2003 5:33:42 AM

rcav8or

Posts: 903
Joined: 12/15/2001
From: Oxford, IN, USA
Status: offline

I have to respond to this...

I have been flying for over 15 years...I probably have bought 5 or 6 motors a year, maybe more...I find it difficult to believe that you received a motor with a BIG crack in the motor case. Quality control is usually better than that. But, given that you did, the most you can expect is for Horizon Hobby to make good on the engine, putting your innard in a new crankcase.

As for the sales tax, it is becoming more and more evident that companies will charge sales tax, regardless of where you live - they are paying the taxman, and passing it on to you...the only way they aren't required to pay sales tax, is if you claim it, and pay the tax...HOWEVER, since 99.9% of their customers DON'T bother to pay the tax, they have taken it upon themselves to enforce it, in my opinion. I may be wrong here, but I would guess by your accusations, that you figure to "slide" on your responsibility....

Now, as far as calling it Satan's Hometown, I think your better regroup...I have quite a few experiences with Horizon, and have had nothing but excellent customer relations - they have bent over backwards to accomodate me - and I am just the average Joe, as far as they are concerned....

It's just an opinion, but it looks to me like you ordered a plane, received a plane, built it, then took it in, cracked the crankcase, broke a wing, then expect HH to "take care" of you...I might be wrong, but I have TOO many years experience to suggest otherwise...

R

(in reply to Mike Ledbetter)

Post #: 2

RE: Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/5/2003 6:26:54 PM

Mike Ledbetter

Posts: 636
Joined: 6/18/2003
From: Carpinteria, CA, USA
Status: offline

I have to respond to THAT.

This plane has had its defects repaired by me and been completed except for the engine mount, but never flown. It has never left the workshop. Photographs of the wing damage were included in my letter to them, taken before the wing defect was repaired and the wing recovered and built.

The engine has never been run, much less crashed. I have a picture at home of the 1/2" crack in the case where the carburetor was inserted at the factory. Would YOU start an engine that looked like that? I have never taken a tool to this engine, started it, or done anything to it but take it out of the box and send it back. This would be evident to them when they received it.

Your implications, especially without knowing me, are libelous. I have six or seven planes at home, all operational, and the implication that I would defraud Horizon or anybody else to pay for a mistake of my own is absurd and malicious. All I expect are

1. A new engine or credit back to my card for the defective one they sent me.
2. My return postage.
3. Some consideration for the damaged wing I received. I paid for a new wing, not a repaired one. They could at least reimburse me for the roll of UltraCote I had to buy because I needed one square foot.

They have refused to do any of these things.

The facts are as I have stated them and anyone who would like an electronic copy of the letter with corroborating photos I sent to Horizon may contact me at

MLdbttr@netscape.net

As for the sales tax issue, there are plenty of companies who do not charge sales tax on out-of-state sales and have treated me far better than Horizon, both with regard to quality of product and customer service. Tower, Hobby Lobby and Servo City are some that come to mind. There is where I will spend my money, and places like them.

And a gentleman would apologize for making such baseless accusations.

Regards to all.

< Message edited by Mike Ledbetter -- 11/5/2003 6:30:37 PM >

(in reply to rcav8or)

Post #: 3

RE: Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/5/2003 7:34:39 PM

LeeL

Posts: 335
Joined: 10/26/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline

I am going to throw my 2 cents in here, I also purchased a H-9 60 size ultra stick that had problems. The wing ribs were cracked around the area of the lightning holes and chunks of balsa fell out when I was installing the servos. The damage was minor and I felt that the damage was minor enough to not even warrant repairs, I also found a cut in the covering on the sheeted area on the top of the wing. again agravating but no big deal. I did not bother to contact Horizon with what I felt to be trivial problems. I also have owned an MDS 68 that was a peice of junk engine ran perfect for 3 flights then proceeded to start having problems that no one in my club could figure out. engine had no power and would not stay running I sent the engine back and horizon sent me a new engine back. I have since switched exclusively to O.S. on glow engines (only exception a moki 1.80 in my D.P. extra) and would never switch back. Now enter my H-9 Sukhoi when it arrived I started drooling over the parts and found that the canopy was dented I called the customer service dept. and they could not have been any more helpfull with no hesitation on their part they shipped me a new canopy, which I recieved 2 days later. All in all I am very pleased with H-9 and their service. I am not trying to strart a war of words here nor am I trying to antagonize you, but do you think there could be other reasons you did not get the cooperation you were looking for, such as the way you approached them.

_____________________________

Lee
www.aeroworldrc.com

(in reply to Mike Ledbetter)

Post #: 4

RE: Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/5/2003 8:04:58 PM

Mike Ledbetter

Posts: 636
Joined: 6/18/2003
From: Carpinteria, CA, USA
Status: offline

I understand what you're saying, you got good service from them and so are happy to pay full price for an ARF that needed repair and recovering when you got it.

I, myself, have gotten good products and after-the-fact service from other vendors. I was very polite to Albert from Horizon. I found out that none of my very reasonable three requests (see above) would be granted, I asked him why he had wasted so much of my time before telling me they would not help me. I spent 25 minutes on the phone just to get to "We'll rebuild you engine and send it back when we get around to it. No reimbursement for your $10 postage. Thanks for buying more UltraCote to repair your wing."

I'm thinking, frankly, that I should have asked to speak to a manager. You guys would honestly put up with "service" like that and go back for more? Wow.

(in reply to LeeL)

Post #: 5

RE: Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/5/2003 8:31:53 PM

rcav8or

Posts: 903
Joined: 12/15/2001
From: Oxford, IN, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Ledbetter

I have to respond to THAT.

This plane has had its defects repaired by me and been completed except for the engine mount, but never flown. It has never left the workshop. Photographs of the wing damage were included in my letter to them, taken before the wing defect was repaired and the wing recovered and built.

The engine has never been run, much less crashed. I have a picture at home of the 1/2" crack in the case where the carburetor was inserted at the factory. Would YOU start an engine that looked like that? I have never taken a tool to this engine, started it, or done anything to it but take it out of the box and send it back. This would be evident to them when they received it.

As I said, these are my opinions - you are right, I don't know you. But when I see a post belittling a company that I have had nothing but the greatest of dealings with, as well as everyone I know that has had problems with stuff from them, I get suspicious. They have bent over backwards several times for me. You say you have a picture, but did not post it here. That would have been wise to do, so that we could make a judgement based on it - a picture is worth 1000 words...

quote:

Your implications, especially without knowing me, are libelous. I have six or seven planes at home, all operational, and the implication that I would defraud Horizon or anybody else to pay for a mistake of my own is absurd and malicious. All I expect are

1. A new engine or credit back to my card for the defective one they sent me.
2. My return postage.
3. Some consideration for the damaged wing I received. I paid for a new wing, not a repaired one. They could at least reimburse me for the roll of UltraCote I had to buy because I needed one square foot.

They have refused to do any of these things.

1. They have offered you the equivalent of a new motor - and if you received it bad from the factory, it will be even better than a new one. Again, without a picture, it's hard to tell what and how the damage was done. Could it have been done in shipping? I doubt very seriously that Horizon opens the boxes before shipping. So, we are left to speculate solely on your explanation, without pictures.

2. I am surprised they didn't offer return postage, or an RMA. Can't answer that one.

3. You have said they offered to send you a wing - same story, was it damaged in shipping or from the factory? You chose to repair it, instead of allowing them to make it right

quote:

I told them the engine better run like a watch and that they have seen the last of my dollars. I also told them I would not let anyone I know spend any money there if I can help it.

However, you took it to RCU, and in effect, told 75,000 people. But between you and me, I've never seen an MDS that DID run like a watch. I know there are some out there, but I bought a .48, dinked with it for about 2 weeks, then gave it to a buddy - I don't think he ever got it running quite right, either. Yet some people say they have good luck with them - not me, and I think my $$'s are better spent with an OS.

quote:

The facts are as I have stated them and anyone who would like an electronic copy of the letter with corroborating photos I sent to Horizon may contact me at

MLdbttr@netscape.net

As for the sales tax issue, there are plenty of companies who do not charge sales tax on out-of-state sales and have treated me far better than Horizon, both with regard to quality of product and customer service. Tower, Hobby Lobby and Servo City are some that come to mind. There is where I will spend my money, and places like them.

And a gentleman would apologize for making such baseless accusations.

No accusations were made - I merely stated that my impression on reading the post, without pictures or anything, was as I stated. And I am sure that Horizon gets their fair share of people trying to take advantage of them. I did not accuse you of that, merely said that's the impression I got from the post, based on many hundreds of motors purchased. I don't know if you have a local hobby shop, but your problems could have been alleviated merely by going through someone local - they would have made good on both the motor and kit, and done it over the counter...but then, you would have had to pay sales tax. I am sorry you felt accused.

But I do know that Horizon is well-known for taking care of it's customers. Countless servos have been repaired W/O charge, planes replaced, engines repaired - the list goes on and on.

quote:

Regards to all.

(in reply to Mike Ledbetter)

Post #: 6

RE: Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/5/2003 8:57:52 PM

forfun42us

Posts: 98
Joined: 10/16/2003
From: howell, MI, USA
Status: offline

Well I for one sure hope the folks at Horizon chime in on this. I have not purchased anything from them, however I am new to the hobby. I am considering an Ultrastick as a X-Mas present for my son and also will be building a Goldberg Ultimate this winter. I was planning on a Saito 100 for it.

That being said I think there are some companies out there that need to focus more on customer support. I know that in my industry there is an emphasis on customer satisfaction. It the driving force.

Thunder Tiger already lost any hopes of getting any of my money in the future due to lack of parts support, even though I am very happy with the performance of the engine I now have. I started the season with one engine The thunder Tiger. I now own 6 engines, still only one thunder tiger.

Assuming this was a virgin MDS engine (built where?) with a cracked case, I would go ballistic if they told me all they could do was stuff the inards into a new crankcase. Thats just absurd!

As for as the cracked rib goes, It doesn't surprise me. I personally would just expect that there is a good possibility of hidden damage during assembly of an ARF. Thats one reason why I haven't purchased any ARF's. Who's putting it together? Do they really care about the quality of the their product? In their mind is it a !QUOT!Who's gonna know after the covering on it? kind of situation?

In my short 1 season of flying I have already witnessed or heard about enough ARF in-flight failures that I wouldn't assume anyone was stretching the truth about receiving damaged goods. And even the crashes I have seen due to pilot error , the ARF's just don't seem to absorb those impacts with mother nature the way stick built kits do.

Like I said earlier, I am new to this hobby and my experiences few, but those that I do have are weighed when I make future decisions.

Anyway thats my 2 cents worth!

_____________________________

God............This is fun!

(in reply to Mike Ledbetter)

Post #: 7

RE: Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/5/2003 9:06:27 PM

CAPtain232

Posts: 2467
Joined: 12/15/2001
From: Waynetown, IN, USA
Status: offline

First of all,

It is the way that WE, meaning EVERYONE in this hobby, handle issues that allow DEFECTIVE goods to ever enter our households. If we were to complain to the company each and evey time we receive something that is not in what should be standardized as PERFECT condition, then 1 of 2 things would happen......

1) Quality control becomes MUCH MUCH better, but we pay for it

OR

2) This hobby would most likely no longer exist

I think that your first mistake was making ANY repairs at all to the plane......my reason for saying this is that NOW YOU ARE COMPLAINING about it. If it is ever something you would complain about wether in the beginning or in the end, you may as well do it in the beginning and get things fixed PROPERLY. Now that you have made repairs and are getting angry with the situation, you are EXPECTING them to cover the bill for the ULTRAKOTE.....IT AIN"T GONNA HAPPEN

I do think that they should do what they can to help you out with the engine......sounds like they tried. I have a hard time believing that you received an engine with a HUGE crack in it, but sometimes things like this happen......usually to me......PIC would be nice.

I sympathize with your situation, but I feel that you could/should have made better decisions when you received the goods. I understand your frustration, but it sounds like you are being hard to deal with. You should have called them and complained BEFORE you ever made any repairs....actually if everything is as obvious as you make it sound, then you should have called them about 5 to 10 minutes after you opened the boxes.

_____________________________

CUSTOM GIANT SCALE BUILDER
PROTOTYPE MODEL BUILDING for full scale aircraft
current project can be seen at http://www.geversaircraft.com

(in reply to rcav8or)

Post #: 8

RE: Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/6/2003 1:58:33 AM

splais

Posts: 2753
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Yuma, AZ, USA
Status: offline

Obviously nobody here really knows anyone. But it is clear from the original post that a certain amount of "attitude" existed. As an individual that has delt with Horizon for years on many issues and ALWAYS received superior service; I will flatly state that you get what you deserve. I have no way of knowing what happened in this case. But you can carve it in stone that just about every case of "poor service" from a major company was the result of one of two things: (1) unreasonable expectations; or (2) "attitude" over the phone.

(in reply to CAPtain232)

Post #: 9

RE: Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/6/2003 2:30:35 AM

NOVAflier

Posts: 949
Joined: 9/9/2002
From: Alexandria, VA, USA
Status: offline

The cracked rib issue was a known problem by them. Many people have had the problem It is probably the main reason I bought mine at the LHS. I opened the box, inspected everything and then bought it. No damage. The covering and where the seams are, well that is a different story.

As far as Horizon goes, I bought the UltraCote paint from them, painted my landing gear with it, and the paint ran. Called them up, they sent me a brand new landing gear, a new can of paint AND a can of the ultra clear coat for free. I had it in 3 days. I was happy as heck..

When dealing with situations like this, especially over the phone, I remember a saying my wife instilled in me:

"You get more bees with honey, than vinegar"...

(in reply to splais)

Post #: 10

What you sense is my frustration with the situation - 11/6/2003 3:54:24 PM

Mike Ledbetter

Posts: 636
Joined: 6/18/2003
From: Carpinteria, CA, USA
Status: offline

As I said, I was polite both to Chris and Albert. I originally called to ask if I needed an RMA or anything to send the engine back and was told no. Anyway, here are some pictures.

Attachments

Click to see fullsize image.

Click for fullsize

Click to see fullsize image.

Click for fullsize

Click to see fullsize image.

Click for fullsize

Click to see fullsize image.

Click for fullsize

(in reply to NOVAflier)

Post #: 11

RE: Horizon Hobby H9 Ultra Stick & MDS engine - 11/6/2003 3:59:13 PM

P-51B

Posts: 6173
Joined: 10/11/2002
From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcav8or

I have to respond to this...

I have been flying for over 15 years...I probably have bought 5 or 6 motors a year, maybe more...I find it difficult to believe that you received a motor with a BIG crack in the motor case. Quality control is usually better than that. But, given that you did, the most you can expect is for Horizon Hobby to make good on the engine, putting your innard in a new crankcase.

I have dealt with Horizon for years, and had nothing but great service. What I would EXPECT is for them to REPLACE the damaged engine with a BRAND NEW engine, not tear it apart and put the "innard in a new crankcase." He paid for a new engine, not a damaged then rebuilt one.

_____________________________

In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

(in reply to rcav8or)