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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 8/16/2010 2:25 AM

JKEpps

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OK, I've decided to throw my hat in the ring and give Gas/Glo a try. I have several engines I can try it with, however, I bought an used engine at the Toledo a few years ago, that seemed to be a perfect candidate. Actually, I think it may have already been used for Gas/Glo, unless it was converted to straight Glo. I'll post a few pics of it. It seems that it's a DA engine, by the logo that is embossed on the cylinder. I can't tell if it is or isn't or even which model engine it is. It has a Walbro carb. Carb has 21-146 on it.

In any case, my LHS doen't have 10% car fuel, as recommended by others. Nore do they carry the SuperTiger fuel, but would order a case if I got a few guys together. I looked online at Morgan's cool power fuel, and the only 20/20 fuel show is Heli fuel. Gues what, LHS doesn't carry it either. I may have to venture to another store, but it's a haul away. So what I did get is some Byron 4-Cycle fuel that is 15% Nitro, and 16% Oil. I figure I could cut this down close enough to 10/10 to make it work. Next issue was obtaining methanol by the gallon. Again, within reasonable effort, it was a challenge. I couldn't find a local speed/kart shop that carries it. So, instead I bought the yellow bottle of HEET.

Before I begin, can anyone tell me if what I have will work? If so, great. If not, I'll keep working to get the right stuff.

So, if I cut the 15/16 fuel using 1 gallon of fuel by adding 50% (by volume) of HEET, that should net me a 10/10 mix. In other words, if I start with 24oz of my Glo fuel, add 12oz of HEET (that's the bottle size) I should be good. This would net me 36 oz. of 10/10 mix. Makes sense?

Following the instructions on the other thread, I'd add 72 oz. of good ole Exxon 93 Octane to the 36 oz. of mix that I have, which would give me 108 oz. of Gas/Glo mix.

Sound OK? Please chime in.

-Jorden

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 8/16/2010 4:18 AM

w8ye

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Here's the ingredient part of the "Heet" MSDS.

I don't know what the 1% proprietary ingredient #2 is? Probably the color additive?

`Ingredient #`	`02`
`Ingredient Name`	`PROPRIETARY ADDITIVE`
`CAS Number`	`1002`
`Proprietary`	`YES`
`Percent`	`1`
`OSHA PEL`	`NR`
`ACGIH TLV`	`NR`
`Ingredient #`	`1`
`Ingredient Name`	`METHANOL`
`CAS Number`	`67561`
`Proprietary`	`NO`
`Percent`	`99`
`OSHA PEL`	`200 PPM`
`ACGIH TLV`	`200 PPM`

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 8/16/2010 5:59 AM

Bradh2000

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I am using HEET to cut my glow fuel, but I would not cut it 50/50 using the 15/16 glow. I would try 2/3 glow mixing in 1/3 HEET to stay closer to a final 10/10 mix before cutting it with the gasoline. If the motor is good and has high compression, you could add oil to get to 20%, then cut it 50/50 with the HEET. But I have only converted one Stihl chainsaw engine, but it worked like a champ after working through a couple of blonde moments. But these guys came to the rescue

You know who you are. Thanks again guys and good luck. Let us know how it goes.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 8/16/2010 7:45 AM

aero nut

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YOUR CALCULATIONS ARE RIGHT!!! 2/3 BYRON 15/16 AND 1/3 HEET THEN MIX WITH 2 TIMES GASOLINE "DO NOT ADD EXTRA OIL" IT SHOULD WORK GREAT

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 8/16/2010 8:08 AM

JKEpps

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aero nut

YOUR CALCULATIONS ARE RIGHT!!! 2/3 BYRON 15/16 AND 1/3 HEET THEN MIX WITH 2 TIMES GASOLINE ''DO NOT ADD EXTRA OIL'' IT SHOULD WORK GREAT

Awesome! Thanks! I can't wait to give it a try. Man if it works, the guys at my club are gonna soil their shorts!

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 8/18/2010 7:45 PM

Ralphbf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JKEpps

quote:

ORIGINAL: aero nut

YOUR CALCULATIONS ARE RIGHT!!! 2/3 BYRON 15/16 AND 1/3 HEET THEN MIX WITH 2 TIMES GASOLINE ''DO NOT ADD EXTRA OIL'' IT SHOULD WORK GREAT

Awesome! Thanks! I can't wait to give it a try. Man if it works, the guys at my club are gonna soil their shorts!

Get out the stain remover.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 4/16/2011 10:04 AM

aero nut

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Well guys I just thought that I would jump start the father of gas/glow thread, it has been a lot fun and experiences developed throughout the years.
I would like to thank allof the contributors to this revolution that I started many years ago and that is still going on but now on a newer thread that my good old frien av8tor initiated.
so KUDOS to all of you GAS/GLOWERS.
Sincerelly: AERO NUT

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 4/16/2011 5:20 PM

av8tor1977

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Great work on starting the whole Gas/Glow system Bill. It's been fun, and after all these years I still have several airplanes flying Gas/Glow, as do friends and family of mine.

Take care,
AV8TOR

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 4/16/2011 9:58 PM

captinjohn

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With the price in this area of gas reaching $4.09 + strait alcohol from DuneLand at $2.75 a gallon, it would cost less to run a big Supertiger Or Moki Glow engine. Or convert a high compression saw engine to Glow. No Nitro needed...like in Europe ...Add Klotz oil to fuel & use a OS max 4 cycle glowplug.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 4/17/2011 12:16 AM

RysiuM

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I guess I am the only one, who stick to original idea: gasoline-oil-glow plug (no methanol at all). The glow plug is powered from 3700mAh NiMh on board. After replacing carb in my old Poulan 25 it got good power as good as can be. The first carb got plugged by some goo that gas-methanol-oil turned into over the winter (my fault I did not clean the plane after the last flight). With gasoline mixed with 2-cycle motor oil no more goo even after months (now I can be lazy). The second plane is very old ASP 60 (2-cycle glow engine) that was never reliable on glow fuel (it used to die out of the blue without any warning). With the smallest walbro I could get it runs 24 minutes on 8oz fuel tank hauling 7lb trainer (a little bigger Spadet). No more "die because..." in the flight. And I verified it has the same power (same RPM on the same prop) as it was powered with glow.

Methanol-oil it may be same cost as gas-oil now but you will need more oil in the mixture (correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard that metanol needs more oil in the mixture to provide proper lubrication) and more fuel on board (higher take off weight). Right now I don't have any plane on methanol - everything below size 60 is electric, bigger than that is gas-glow or gas-spark.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 4/17/2011 7:13 AM

aero nut

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Hey Captain and Rysium!!! Glad to hear from you guys, everybody has a point in favor or in con but the truth is that we all gain some experience in all this deal, Methanol may be cheap and easy to get in some places than in others, for example here in southern CA the last time I purchased methanol it cost me 5.95 vs 2.00 for gasoline, right now gas is almost 4.00 but considering the volume/weight factor I still think that gas is cheaper and less weight to haul in our planes, then you need to consider the special walbro carb designed for methanol that would handle the larger volume of fuel going through, but then again we ALL HAD FUN!!!!!!! in learning this new concept that lots of people thought that it could not work and it does.
How can we explain 97 pages of information, questions etc. that means that it cought the atention of a lot readers.
Now with the availavility of cheaper sources of engines, electronic CDI etc a lot of people chose to just purchase the engine that will run on gasoline and that's it, but remember that when we started this thread some years ago the only CDIs available costed a lot money and took the fun of light conversion away so we had to do some thinkering in order to achieve a light weight alternative of gas power and that is how I came about with this idea that a lot of you help me refine to a point that it was proven to work.
I still use gas/glow fuel on my CDI powered gas engines, as this helps my engine to run smoother and give me more power and rpms, try it on your DLE,DA,RCGF Well I think I said enough for the nigth, but once again I want to thank evrybody that made this thread what it is "THE DADDY OF GAS/GLOW FUEL"
Aero Nut

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/2/2011 2:15 AM

AndyW

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I used an OS .108 throttle replacing the Walbro and it worked just fine, although there was a bit of hesitation. http://www.youtube.com/user/hopeso#p/u/34/Uy_otmF5ufI

In this run though, I used no nitro. Another mix using glow fuel in the recommended ratios, gave instant response. A stock, RC carb eliminates gasket compatibility problems.

BTW,

THANK YOU aero nut.

Innovative thinking like yours is what makes this hobby truly unique and rewarding.

Enya has developed a glow plug fired, all gas concept in one of their engines. I've got the plug and special oil and will be trying to get this engine http://www.youtube.com/user/hopeso#p/u/14/ciHrSAXdUsE
to run on just gas and oil.

Imagine, a gasser doing 19K

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 3/31/2012 12:18 PM

choihjin

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Dear CaptinJohn;
I just read your thread on Supertiger 3000 running with L85 gasoline posted on 7/22/2010. I have a questiion on a supertiger engine.
Recently I have posted my threads on my DLE20 gas/glow conversition in the forum 'Gas/glow conversion how to'. I learned a lot from your threads. Thank you and all of the developpers.
One of my freiends has a brand new supertiger 3000. He wants to convert it to gasoline with ignition or gas/glow without ignition. My question is that your friend is running the supertiger with glow carburator for L85 gasoline or walbro carburator.
I suggest my friend to convert it to gas/glow without ignition. Whould you suggest me what kind of Walbro carburatoe is proper? Thanks in advance.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 4/2/2012 2:19 AM

nateprice215

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Hey Aeronut:

I got gasoline to work with a glow plug in a echo 22 cc weedeater engine. Check out the thread that says: "new kind of conversion for weedwhackers" The trick is to get the height right in combination with the heat range of the glow plug. The prop also makes a huge difference just like regular glow. Trial and error, and mine is running sweet.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 4/23/2012 1:20 AM

aero nut

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Great!!! congratulations keep posting your results!!!

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 5/8/2012 5:32 AM

ckostac

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Hi guys, I'm giving this gas/glow thing a whirl and am having fuel separation issues. I am using premium gas(tried two different gas stations), 20%/16% glow fuel cut 1:1 with straight methanol. I have tried methanol pumped from a sealed barrel from the local speed shop, and the yellow HEET. The only way they seem to mix by adding Klotz oil(using Super Techniplate 20%Castor oil). This would be OK except that I think the oil content is getting pretty high. It seems to be need a lot of the Klotz to get it to mix. I've also tried mixing the methanol, gas, and Klotz by themselves, leaving the premix glow fuel out of the mix. I'm just not sure why it's separating so much. I'll try to get some numbers on just how much oil I'm adding tomorrow. I have fired up the engine on this mix and it sure shows promise, but I don't want to get serious about tuning until I've got this fuel mixing issue figured out.

Plane is home made 102" low wing, stick type plane(big stick, giant stick sort of thing). Engine is a 39cc Homelite. WT391 carb, 120psi compression, 20 x 6 MA and 18 x8 MA to start with. I've already built a set of floats for it and am getting pretty anxious to try 'er out. I tried once this winter on skis but had carb issues and never made it more than 15 ft off the ground. It would run great when level, but would die once it was tilted, such as on take off. Never did find the problem, just switched carbs when I got home and haven't tried it since. I decided to give the gas/glow a shot as losing a full pound and no radio interference sounded pretty darn good to me! Anyway, thanks in advance for any help. Chris

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 5/8/2012 6:24 AM

fujiman

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try a little acetone should help.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 5/8/2012 12:47 PM

ckostac

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Thanks fujiman. I've read about the first 40 pages in this thread, and I do remember seeing that in the beginning somewhere. I also remember someone using ether(starting fluid) to get them to mix. I thought there were issues with the diaphragms swelling though, so I figured it's be better to ask than cause myself more frustration. I may pick up both today and give them a try. I've got to go into town this morning anyway. Thanks, Chris

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 5/8/2012 6:43 PM

ckostac

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Well, I tried the acetone today and it worked great. Got 'er fired up and ran pretty good. I used th 20%/16% glow fuel cut 1:1 with straight methanol, then mixed with just a hair less than 2 parts gas to compensate for the acetone. I'm not sure how much acetone I used, but it took very little to get it all to mix. Then I added a hair more to make sure it stayed mixed. I've got it dialed in pretty close now. It idles great, top end sounds about where it was on gas/spark, and transition isn't too bad. I was testing with the 20 x 6, but it'll be interesting to see how it does with the 18 x 8. I plan to do a little porting someday too, but for now I'm ready to put this thing back together and just have some fun FLYING it for a while.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 5/8/2012 6:50 PM

fujiman

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glad the acetone worked for you. are you using an OS F plug? what glow fuel and nitro content are you using??????

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 5/8/2012 8:50 PM

ckostac

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yep, OS F plug, fuel is 20% nitro/16% oil castor and synthetic blend. Here is the site for it : http://www.morganfuel.com/sidewinder_byb_detail
It is cut 1 to 1 with straight methanol, then mixed with 2 parts premium gas. Before the acetone these were my ratio's:

Nitro -4.33% Oil-2.66% Methanol - 27.33% Gas - 66.66%

Good in theory, but wouldn't mix. I could add Klotz until it mixed, but the oil was WAY too high by then. It would run, but not that well, and of course made a mess with all the extra oil. Now that I have added the Acetone to the mix, I slightly lowered the gas content to keep the rest of the numbers in check. This put's my current oil ratio at about 36:1. Slightly leaner than those using the 10%/10% mix, but that should be fine. Glad it seems to be working out. Many thanks to everyone who has developed this method. I love the hobby and plan to be around a while. Hopefully I'll be able contribute and to pass on some of the things I've learned to others. This is only my second plane, but I do love tinkering with these little two strokes. Not just planes, but boats too. I also have some machining ability, but my access to a lathe and mill are somewhat limited. I am the guy who would much rather build my own prop adapters, engine mounts, etc.,etc than buy one. Anyway, thanks again, I'll post a couple pics when I get her all together. Chris

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 5/19/2012 12:43 PM

ckostac

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Ooops, over all Nitro is 3.33%, not 4.33%.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 7/12/2012 5:11 AM

asandberg6

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I am modifying a weed eater engine that looks identical to the one on the left, according to the sticker on the trimmer a 24cc engine. The exhaust port had a small passage drilled up through the cylinder wall midway between the port ceiling and the top of the cylinder. I went ahead and tapped & plugged it with a grub screw for more compression, I suspect it was for easy starting or emissions. Will post my own pix soon.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 7/12/2012 1:35 PM

SrTelemaster150

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quote:

ORIGINAL: h82crash

The theory goes; methanol reacts with the glow element to keep it hot. I've read stories about people starting their glow engine without a glow battery attached. That behind us, sounds like gas will run with an on board glow system.

If one is going to all the trouble of installing an on board glow, why not just convert to a CDI electronic ignition?

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