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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/16/2003 6:54:16 PM   
wvarn1957



Posts: 245
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Av8tor1977,
As I previously said, the runs with the OS 60 would only point in a direction and may not be directly applicable. This was more a "proof of concept" than anything else. There is no question that going down in oil content will have an effect on the performance and intuitively I would say that the idle would be improved. However, I'm not sure that I would go much lower than 50:1 on oil. Gasoline( even without the oil added) has a certain amount of lubricity while methanol has none.

We have a large group of avid combat flyers in our club and they buy methanol from a distributor. Last price was $2.63/gal in 55 gal drums. I just borrowed a quart from one of them.

You can get ether by using diesel starter fluid(John Deer seems to be preferred by the diesel guys). Adding ether was the subject of discussion in one of the topics in the "Everything Diesel" forum. Basically what they do is glue a 1/8" tube into the spray nozzle of the starter fluid can and connect it to a jar with a tube going down to the bottom. The lid of the jar has a vent. They then bubble the ether through the Kerosene/oil intermittently, allowing the bubbles to go down and the propellant to vent until the mixture volume comes up to a mark on the jar. After thinking about it for a while, I believe that ether would be a much better ignition aid than acetone. However the ether content would have to be determined carefully for, I suspect that you might get into pre-ignition(detonation) problems if the content was too high. Most of the diesel fuels run 1:1:1 castor oil, kerosene and ether respectively. Some use amyl nitrate and/or MEK peroxide(Catalyst for Bondo) as an ignition aide. Since the ether/oxygen reaction is more readilly catalized by platinum than by compression, detonation could be a problem.

If you want to try ethanol, just get some denatured alcohol from a paint store. It is ethanol with about 1% methanol added to make it non drinkable.

< Message edited by wvarn1957-RCU -- 11/16/2003 6:56:00 PM >

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/17/2003 2:54:12 AM   
bdtsr


 

Posts: 1525
Joined: 9/3/2002
From: Egg Harbor Twp., NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Ok, this has been pretty interesting. Has anyone tried the E85 blend (85% ethanol and 15% gas) fuel? Some new car mfg's are selling E85 compatible vehicles. Of course there are not ANY E85 refueling stations near me!

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/19/2003 7:18:47 AM   
avalon



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Joined: 3/6/2003
From: atlanta, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I've been following this disscussion with interest. I have an OS .90 four stroke that I was planning to convert to ignition and gas but if it can be done with glo, all the better. However, I'm not sure about lubrication. One of the main reasons for going to gas is because of the gunk that methanol, or rather the castor oil, leaves on the aircraft. If gas is used and 20% methanol could two stroke oil be used at say 25:1 or would this damage the engine?

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/19/2003 3:15:53 PM   
Herby 1


 

Posts: 10
Joined: 4/26/2003
From: Northern Arizona
Status: offline 		I have a customer who runs an OS surpass on ignition..He has about 250 hours on the engine...He mixes his own fuel...He runs 10% synthetic oil..The bushing con rod needs the same oil ratio no matter what fuel is used..He gets away with 10% because he just flies around at 1/2 throttle most of the time...

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/19/2003 5:32:13 PM   
wvarn1957



Posts: 245
Joined: 7/7/2002
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		RCIGN1 is absolutely correct about the oil content for four strokes. I have a Magnum 80 on ignition and gasoline that has about 50 hours on it with no problems on 15% synthetic oil. However, the glow engine carb setup is for metering methanol at a 6.5 air to fuel ratio. On gasoline, even with 20 to 25 % methanol, the needle settings between rich and lean are usually less than 1/4 turn. It is really sensitive. However you can take a spare needle and modify it to give you more adjustment latitude. The mod is shown in the attached drawing.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/19/2003 6:31:20 PM   
Herby 1


 

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Joined: 4/26/2003
From: Northern Arizona
Status: offline 		The SuperTigre carbs already have a loooong taper, should work well with gasoline, or maybe the thread size on the needle would be the same...Harry Higley used to sell SuperTigre replacemant needles...the needles were quite long and tended to vibrate open..We cut the needle close to the carb and soldered on a 4-40 nut..

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/19/2003 11:57:36 PM   
aero nut


 

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From: tijuanaBaja California, MEXICO
Status: offline 		Ok guys this is getting better every time, thanks. It rained this weekend so I didn't get a chance to try my weede with all the possible combinations, being a chemist by profession
I have some anhydrous ethyl ether, I will give it a try in a 5% mixture and include it on my table and see how it turns out, so to summarize the mixtures to be tried they will be as follows:
a.- Gasoline + oil (synthetic) 50:1 ratio.
b.-Gasoline 90%, methanol 10%, oil in a 50:1 ratio
c.- Gasoline 85%, methanol 15%, oil in a 50:1 ratio
d.- Gasoline85%, methanol 10%, Acetone 5%, oil in a50:1 ratio
e.- Gasoline 80%, metanol 15%, Acetone 5%, oil in a 50:1 ratio
f.- Gasoline 95%, ether 5%, oil in a 50:1 ratio
g.- Gasoline 85%, Methanol 10%, ether 5%, oil in a 50:1 ratio
h.- Gasoline 80%, methanol 15%, ether 5%, oil 50:1 ratio

I will develop a table for the fueld used vs the rpm's obtained, being that I live by the beach this readings will be at sea level and I wil be using a weedeater 18 cc engine with a 15x6 or maybe a 14x6 master airscrew prop.
Until then I will keep in touch hopeing that the weather conditions for this weekend are favorable, thank you all for your valuable information and lets see if something good comes out of this.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/20/2003 2:43:27 AM   
av8tor1977



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Joined: 5/3/2003
From: ASH FORK, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		GO GO GO...

Great plan, and I can't wait to see the results. Thanks in advance!!

AV8TOR

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/21/2003 2:50:00 AM   
tkg


 

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Joined: 1/6/2002
From: Riverton, WY, USA
Status: offline 		Did anybody read the engine column in the new AMA Model Aviation??? Run your glow engine with 20% water and gain power.
Water most places is cheaper than gas

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/29/2003 4:51:44 AM   
aero nut


 

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Joined: 11/10/2003
From: tijuanaBaja California, MEXICO
Status: offline 		but wath does it realy means by running with water, glo fuel + 20% water? could it be done with gasoline? don't thionk so.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/29/2003 3:45:08 PM   
foamcutter


 

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From: Corpus Christi, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Actually years ago they made add on water injector systems for cars. It was supposed to give you more power and cooler running engine. I never bought one so I don't really know how well it worked. The information as I recall talked about a very fine mist injected in the carb throat. I have been thinking about when I get some time trying to build a system to try on a conversion engine. I think it might be interesting or it could turn out to be more work than it's worth, I don't know. Just my 2 cents worth of opinion. Ron

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/30/2003 5:15:29 PM   
av8tor1977



Posts: 2778
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: ASH FORK, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Hi,

I haven't seen the AMA article, so I can't comment on that. But I do know a little about water injection. The water, or water/alcohol injection, was first used I believe, on the World War Two fighters. It is used to combat detonation in engines with high compression ratios and/or being run with a gasoline of lesser quality octane rating than needed. You are right, it was offered and used for car engines for a time as well. The older cars were designed with higher compression ratios, and when the fuel quality started declining in the beginning of the "smog years", the water injection systems would sometimes help the situation.

Detonation is generally more of a problem in, as I said, high compression engines, and also in engines with large bores. Our little weedie engines have both small bores, and low compression ratios, so detonation is not a problem, even with today's crappy gasoline. Water &/or water/alcohol injection would probably be a waste of time and gain nothing. One interesting side note however, is that the engines run with the injection showed remarkably clean combustion chambers and piston tops, with virtually no carbon build up.

Hey aero nut, any luck with your tests yet????

Hope this helps,
AV8TOR

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 11/30/2003 6:10:57 PM   
ZAGNUT



Posts: 2436
Joined: 2/26/2003
From: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		yeah, one of the 240Z i bought had a "suck through the carb" turbo with water injection... i even worked out a "stoplights per gallon of water" ratio until i finally replaced it wth an electromotive fuel injection system and intercooler...MUCH MORE POWER!!! no Z's to be found over here but i'm close to bringing one over...


dave

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