RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition  
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> Engine Conversions >> RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ign... - 6/30/2008 2:29:57 AM   
Jezmo



Posts: 823
Joined: 6/26/2006
From: Spring, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I know you will have to find your own comfort in the amount of oil you run but just for the record my SuperTigre 51 is also a bushing rod engine and I am running it at 16:1 with over 35 hours on it with absolutely no rod bushing issues. On the last disassembly the bushing and crankpin looked absolutely brand new. The reason you can run so much less oil than when running glow fuel is because gasoline has some lubricity to it without any oil added whereas methanol is very dry (no lubricity at all). Also, the oils used in most US glow fuels are of the PAG variety and PAG's are not very good lubricants compared to other types of oils. Modern synthetics for blending with gasoline are far superior to anything normally mixed with methanol. If an oil other than a PAG is used with methanol the ratio can be lowered to less than the 18 to 20% normally used. XJet is mixing at 12% and has been for over two years with NO failures. He uses Coopers Plus-C oil if I am not mistaken. I have run my SuperTigre 51 at 22:1 without problems but on the advice of others I went back to 16:1 (8% oil) for safety's sake.

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Raptor 50 V2 OS 50 Hyper, T-Rex 450XL CDE, Spektrum DX7, SuperTigre OS FOX Saito Enya Jett TT

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ign... - 6/30/2008 2:55:12 AM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The experience is talking throu you cand you are rizing my comfort level for the less oil. I will then mix the batch I have with gasoline 1:1 that will gow down to 9%. and the cost will go down too (synthetic oil is still 10 more expensive than gasoline).

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       Post #: 2177

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ign... - 6/30/2008 7:41:06 AM   
KI8FR


 

Posts: 862
Joined: 2/18/2004
From: Ovid, MI, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RysiuM


quote:

ORIGINAL: KI8FR
You are running 5:1 With the way the engine is set up. It sould be fine with just 16:1 Why are you running so much oil?


This engine has bushing on crankpin. It needs a lot of oil or it will die. I am following the glow equivalent.



Ok I see what you are doing. No prob there. With gas and the bushings on a soft crank pin. 16:1 should be all the oil you need. If you go down to 20% I think that would be pushing it but 14 to 16 should be find. Running 5:1 is a lot of oil. It seem that you would be blowing more oil out the mufler then burning.

I will do a test with a old webra 61 I have here before I try running it in my ST75

Thanks for your info.

Paul

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ign... - 6/30/2008 4:46:35 PM   
Jezmo



Posts: 823
Joined: 6/26/2006
From: Spring, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RysiuM

The experience is talking throu you cand you are rizing my comfort level for the less oil. I will then mix the batch I have with gasoline 1:1 that will gow down to 9%. and the cost will go down too (synthetic oil is still 10 more expensive than gasoline).


I have used three synthetic oils at the 16:1 ratio and they are, Redline Two Stroke Racing oil, BelRay H1-R, and Motul 800. I am currently using the Redline but I have great confidence in the other two as well.

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Raptor 50 V2 OS 50 Hyper, T-Rex 450XL CDE, Spektrum DX7, SuperTigre OS FOX Saito Enya Jett TT

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ign... - 6/30/2008 7:55:42 PM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jezmo
I have used three synthetic oils at the 16:1 ratio and they are, Redline Two Stroke Racing oil, BelRay H1-R, and Motul 800.


I believe I use Redline too. I'm saving Motul for my bigger gassers - it was hard to find that oil in Sacramento. Redline is available in almost every motorcycle store here.


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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ign... - 7/1/2008 12:50:44 AM   
captinjohn


 

Posts: 5841
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Hesperia, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I think Klotz oil would also be a very good brand! Best Regards, Capt,n

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ign... - 7/1/2008 10:50:33 PM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		First test in the air.

The needle is very sensitive but possible to set. The plane has the same power (if less, I did not feel that) as on glow. The only difference is, that it is very sensitive to the fuel delivery and even high-G turns changed the mixture. I tried to make a loop and on the way up the engine died.

The flying time is at least twice longer than on glow. This trainer flies well at half throttle, so I did time the flight at this conditions. No loops no rolls, just boring flying in circles. On glow fuel I had 8 minutes of flying time with 1/4 fuel left so I could get about 10 minutes. On gasoline at the same power setup I flew this trainer for 22 minutes till it died from fuel starvation.

All flying was with fuel/oil mixture 9% oil (1:10) and the engine was not hot. The exhaust spill was still very cold with not much burned oil. It might get hotter at WOT but the ground running a WOT did not make much visible difference.

So for now the plane is flyable but not really ready for training. I would need either a fuel pump or maybe replacing Perry carb with small Walbro (or Zama).

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ig... - 7/1/2008 11:36:25 PM   
av8tor1977



Posts: 2709
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: ASH FORK, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		If there is room, I would swap for a gasoline carb. The Zama carbs are a touch smaller physically and that might help. The Zama carbs don't like the Gas/Glow mix, but that wouldn't matter with your pure gas/oil experiments...

Good luck,
AV8TOR

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ig... - 7/2/2008 12:33:36 AM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		The place is very tight but it may fit. The smalest Wlabro is for 18cc engine 7.14mm venturi. This is about the same as this Perry carb has.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ig... - 7/14/2008 7:17:46 PM   
RysiuM



Posts: 1400
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Elk Grove, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I got whole bunch of small throat carburetors and so far I got two candidates. WT308 and WT259 - both modified to remove a primer bulb. WT308 comes with choke but it is smaller throat - i think it will be restrictive to the engine compared to Perry I had. Also I need to modify the primer bulb bottom plate (the top plate of fuel pump) so I can use return fuel line for pump pulse feed.

WT259 looks better so I started with this one. I made an adapter for the engine (fits like a glove) and the carb fits tight between the cylinder and the prop (the membrane cover plate is about 3mm behind the prop). I think I will add 5mm washer between the prop and the hub so it will give a little more space for prop deflection while running. Also I need to solder a piece of brass tube in the pressure sense hole on the membrane cover to attach some line, so the membrane will have a pressure away from the prop (now the pressure sensing will be very distracted by the prop).

EDIT: Pictures below.

Now I have a question: Can I feed a fuel pump from the muffler pressure nipple? Will it have pressure pulse strong enough to run the pump. If possible I would like to avoid drilling a hole in a crankcase for pulse nipple.

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< Message edited by RysiuM -- 7/15/2008 2:56:30 AM >

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ig... - 7/15/2008 3:42:39 AM   
captinjohn


 

Posts: 5841
Joined: 1/25/2002
From: Hesperia, MI, USA
Status: offline 		You may want to add baffels in the cowl to keep a good stream of air over the cooling fins. Just a thought. Capt,n

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ig... - 7/15/2008 4:10:00 AM   
rangerfredbob


 

Posts: 659
Joined: 7/2/2005
From: McMinnville, OR, USA
Status: offline 		last I knew this engine was on a open nose spad trainer...

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ig... - 7/15/2008 4:32:16 AM   
av8tor1977



Posts: 2709
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: ASH FORK, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		I don't believe the muffler will provide a proper pulse for the pump in the carb, and I don't recommend it. Go ahead and tap the crankcase or backplate for a pressure tap and run that to the carb fuel pump fitting.

AV8TOR

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If it's not scary, it's NOWHERE NEAR powerful enough!!

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ig... - 7/15/2008 5:31:11 AM   
RysiuM