RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition  
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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no i... - 7/22/2008 11:20:13 PM   
captinjohn


 

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I would need to hear the engine as it is revved up. I get my ear just right (close and in alighnment) when I tune a engine. I can hear mi-nute sounds that tells me what is happening. Watching the prop go around does not help much. I would leave it alone for now and just run it on a airplane in the air for now. Best Regards Capt,n

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no i... - 7/22/2008 11:47:20 PM   
RysiuM



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I have an idea. When I run the engine next time I will do the following experiment. When I slam the throttle wide open and the engine starts to hesitate (it runs but does not spool up) I will inject few drops of fuel into carb throat. If it dies, I will know there is to much fuel going in. If it speeds up I can assume it is just starving for fuel. There must be some solution to either problem.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no i... - 7/23/2008 12:11:02 AM   
captinjohn


 

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You may be able to tell by exhaust too. If the engine sputters a little and more exhaust smoke comes out...it may be too rich. If it kinda hesitates and picks up speed...it could be to lean....or a very large venturi opened to fast, drops the suction needed to pull fuel in good at low RPM,s. Regards Capt,n

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ... - 7/23/2008 1:17:44 AM   
av8tor1977



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It rather sounds like you may be a touch too rich on the idle, but it's hard to be sure. Usually if you are too lean and get a transition stumble, it will quit instead of burbling for a bit and then throttling up. But it really is hard to trouble shoot these fine tuning problems without actually hearing the engine as Captain John said.

One thing I do when tuning, is to get the engine all warmed up and tuned to where I think it is about right, and then I clean it out with a 20 second run at high throttle. Then I slowly idle it down to it's lowest reliable idle, and just listen to it. If while idling, the speed remains the same, the idle mixture is either very close to correct or possibly slightly lean. Conversely, if after idling for a while it gradually starts slowing down, the idle mixture is rich. (What is happening here is that with the rich idle, fuel accumulates in the crankcase and the mixture gets richer and richer; slowing the engine down. Then when you throttle up, all that accumulated fuel in the crankcase gets "scooped up" into the flow and the engine becomes really rich until it clears out.)

Now, having said all that, Walbro admits in their tech literature that for a good transition, an engine will often have to be tuned with a slightly richer than optimum idle setting. The bottom line is that these carbs just don't like the throttle slammed open fast with a prop load on them. If you think about it, in their designed use on a weedeater, chain saw, etc., they are revved up before the load is introduced in most cases. In our applications, the load (propeller) is ALWAYS there, or applied. There are some Walbro carbs with accelerator pumps that help with the transition problem, but they are in the larger sizes that won't help in your case.

So, what can you do in your case? First, keep trying to get the mixture optimized. Second, if you have a computer radio, you can program some exponential into the throttle channel to slow down the throttle response a bit. I often use this trick on my gas planes. If you don't have this option, you will just have to refrain from "slamming" the throttle open from idle.

There is a third option that I hesitate to recommend. If you look into the carb near the throttle butterfly, you can see the little holes in the venturi where the idle and transition fuel exits. If you take a small jewelers file and file a tiny "V" slot in the throttle butterfly aligned with those holes in the carb venturi, you can often improve idle and throttle response. The problem is, especially on a small engine, if you get the "V" too large, you will not be able to adjust the idle low enough....

Good luck and keep at it,
AV8TOR

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ... - 7/23/2008 1:55:52 AM   
captinjohn


 

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Good points AVATOR! What also helps to is to have idle speed high as possible without airplane moving on ground. The engine will not shake the airplane as much also. It should rev up fast enough then. Best Regards Capt,n

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 7/23/2008 12:25:22 PM   
viflyer


 

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This is a bit off topic, although I ended up reading this thread, do to my original searchs.

I have just started flying small gassers ( 26-50cc ). Have always flown glo then electric.

Having been in the landscaping business for years and have messed ( toooo much ) with Walbros and Tillitsons I have always wondered why someone hasn't designed a smaller lighter carb for small gas engines. This would certainly be of great benefit on the RC motors.

Walbro look like dinosours on RC motors.

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 7/23/2008 9:01:51 PM   
captinjohn


 

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You are right... sometimes carbs to big in being bulkly. I plan to use a smaller RC carb...but use just the pumping part of a Walbro or Zamba. I will mill the aluminum parts I do not need away. Also have it so it can be mounted close to engine and use a pressure tap to get impulse to run pump. Got to do this one soon! Capt,n

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 7/23/2008 10:32:44 PM   
RysiuM



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There are only two features, that make Walbro/Zama better than standard RC barrel type carbs:
- fuel pump,
- pressure regulator

The first one can be easy added (perry or something like that). Some RC engines already have fuel pump.

The pressure regulator in Walbro/Zama is a little different than used by Perry as it has compensation for outside pressure. That supposed to make the engine running at different altitudes without addjusting. For RC models it is not critical as we used to tune the engine anyway.

So short saying, I could run my engine with original Perry carb but I would have to add fuel pump and pressure regulator between fuel tank and the carb. I did not have any so this is why I was experimenting with Walbro.

< Message edited by RysiuM -- 7/23/2008 10:33:59 PM >


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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 7/29/2008 4:50:20 AM   
captinjohn


 

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RysiuM: Good going there. Keep us imformed on your progress. Regards, Capt,n

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 7/29/2008 6:11:03 AM   
RysiuM



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quote:

ORIGINAL: captinjohn
RysiuM: Good going there. Keep us imformed on your progress. Regards, Capt,n


Oh, sorry. I forgot to update.

So far the engine is running like it was - when throttle is operated normally for "trainer plane" the engine runs smooth. At every throttle position. I can slow the idle so low, that you can hear almost every detonation and it will keep running like that for minutes. But it is not reliable for flying or throttle operation (for example from WOT to that low idle - the engine will die). But normal idle is reliable for flying and quite safe for throttle movement.

I did not have time to fly so all my tests were on the ground in my garage. he only thing I noticed is that the head temperature stabilises at 309F at WOT (static). I'm not sure if this is because I'm running only 6% oil (Amsoil 100) or because of bulky blocking the prop wash. It is to early to open the engine and check for lubrication. I will check it after full tank of flying.

At half throttle (what the plane is normally flying) the head temperature drops to 260F. I think the engine will survive that.

So now waiting for some time, that I can go fly. The plane is ready to go.


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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 7/30/2008 3:21:14 AM   
captinjohn


 

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RysiuM: Is that slow idle with glow driver on or off? Thanls Capt,n

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 7/30/2008 4:41:02 AM   
RysiuM



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Glow driver is always ON. Even at WOT the glow driver must be on, otherwise the engine first drops rpm, then start running rough and then dies.

< Message edited by RysiuM -- 7/30/2008 5:06:14 PM >


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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 7/30/2008 3:01:32 PM   
captinjohn


 

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Got Cha! That makes for safer flying also...no flame-outs. Very good Idea! Capt,n

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition - 8/4/2008 12:51:49 AM   
RysiuM



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Today I finally tested Spadet with new carb in flight. The engine runs like a kitten. No flameouts, loops and rolls do not change the engine performance. That's the fuel pump benefit.

The engine has enough power to fly the plane hand's off at 1/2 throttle. I was flying in circles for the whole fuel tank (11 oz) till dead stick. It took 23 minutes and 30 seconds tu burn all fuel, and that does not include startup, runup, taxi and take off.

The oil trail on the fuselage is very visible. It is still sticki and keeps lubrication properties. The enguine today run total about 30 minutes on 6% mix with Amsoil 100. Now I'm going to open the engine to make sure that all parts got enough lubrication.

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