RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA
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RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/17/2003 5:34:15 PM

jonkoppisch

Posts: 1955
Joined: 12/17/2001
From: Wilmer, AL, USA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: zxcv11

quote:

What does "DUH" mean?

Ask the people who use it....like someone in second grade.....they'll know

If you're talking to people in second grade then using 'duh' is appropriate language, lol. (jk)

Jon

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(in reply to zxcv11)

Post #: 101

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/17/2003 7:43:07 PM

rob_ne

Posts: 11
Joined: 10/2/2003
From: Wood River, NE, USA
Status: offline

Got a question. Since there is nobody that flies turbines at my field, who is going to train me, so I can get my waiver?

(in reply to mr_matt)

Post #: 102

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/17/2003 8:22:07 PM

Kevin_W

Posts: 761
Joined: 3/5/2002
From: Carrollton, TX, USA
Status: offline

If you would really like to learn more about turbines and find someone in your area to help you you can go the Jets forum and ask, or go to http://modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/PDF-files/541.pdf for a complete list of turbine Contest Directors with phone numbers and e-mail address's. Just find one close to you and contact him, I am sure he will do everything he can to help you.

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(in reply to rob_ne)

Post #: 103

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/20/2003 5:57:36 AM

3dbatixkid

Posts: 475
Joined: 8/16/2002
From: sunnyvale, CA, USA
Status: offline

In my eyes, Sport_Pilot doesnt know what hes doing...I fly at lots of local conpetitions (IMAC and 3D) and people that are competition grade pilots DONT screw up landings. These people have enough sense that they find it just stupid to not grease in the landing and make it look good.

Also, I have flown a couple of jets, turbine and ducted fan. Yes, they are fast, yes they can be a "bit" to handle, but look at the people that can afford these jets...they arent the type that dont know what they are doing. Yes, there are those exceptions where people that you would think are proficient pilots really arent all that good, but that happens everywhere.

To say that this hobby should be restricted when you move up to the more complicated aircraft is nonsense. Of course there need to be rules so that people dont get out of control, but theres a point where people need to just have fun.

I also see certain groups in RC pointing fingers at other groups...why do we need to do this guys? We are all here to have fun, so I think everyone needs to act as one group, and compromise rules or whatever to make the hobby equally easy and fun for everyone.

*this is all my opinion by the way*

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Post #: 104

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/20/2003 6:30:15 AM

ghost_rider

Posts: 4343
Joined: 12/11/2001
From: Ft Wayne, IN, USA
Status: offline

See Motion III at : http://modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/1103ecmotions.asp for update from AMA.

Also pay attention to the VP's that voted originally against the new turbine rules:
Dist V: Jim McNeill
Dist VII: Bill Oberdieck
Dist IX: Russ Miller.

< Message edited by ghost_rider -- 11/20/2003 1:40:07 AM >

(in reply to 3dbatixkid)

Post #: 105

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/20/2003 6:44:54 AM

J_R

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline

OK, now someone explain to me why Russ Miller would have voted against putting the rules on hold after the telephone conference, please.

JR

(in reply to ghost_rider)

Post #: 106

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/20/2003 1:04:51 PM

S_Ellzey

Posts: 365
Joined: 8/11/2002
From: Grand Prairie, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ghost_rider

See Motion III at : http://modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/1103ecmotions.asp for update from AMA.

Also pay attention to the VP's that voted originally against the new turbine rules:
Dist V: Jim McNeill
Dist VII: Bill Oberdieck
Dist IX: Russ Miller.

Please Note;

Russ Miller had talked to turbine pilots in his district prior to the meeting and they asked him to vote against the proposal until they saw it, so he did what the turbine guys in his district asked him to do. I wish the Dist IX turbine guys would have asked what the details where so they could have supported this effort.

Steven

(in reply to ghost_rider)

Post #: 107

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/20/2003 2:28:27 PM

Sport_Pilot

Posts: 7837
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

In my eyes, Sport_Pilot doesnt know what hes doing...I fly at lots of local conpetitions (IMAC and 3D) and people that are competition grade pilots DONT screw up landings. These people have enough sense that they find it just stupid to not grease in the landing and make it look good.

I am not just basing my comments on turbine competition but pattern, aerobatic, scale, and other competition as well. I see a lot of landings that are too fast, yes many times the skill of the pilot prevents the landings from bouncing, or the bounce is very light, on occasion someone will land too slow with a bit of extra throttle at the end to prevent the thud. Only at the most prestigious events will you see landings comparable to those you would observe spending an afternoon at any small GA airport (providing the sky is not full of student pilots). Why do they err on landings that are on the hot side? Why don't you see scale pilots doing short field landings, especially the bush planes, Cubs, etc? Because they are afraid of getting too slow. With an airspeed bug that beeps when going to slow, and maybe buzzes or makes a differant --Manually Fix-- different differ ant differ-ant diffract deferent differing differently difference differed afferent efferent sound when going too fast landings would be much improved and new pilots would learn how to land much faster.

Go back to the previous page.

(in reply to S_Ellzey)

Post #: 108

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/20/2003 2:50:38 PM

J_R

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: S_Ellzey
Please Note;

Russ Miller had talked to turbine pilots in his district prior to the meeting and they asked him to vote against the proposal until they saw it, so he did what the turbine guys in his district asked him to do. I wish the Dist IX turbine guys would have asked what the details where so they could have supported this effort.

Steven

Did he, after the first meeting, solicit their opinion again and they asked him to support the proposal? That he changed his vote in the telephone conference to wanting implimentation as the rules had been previoulsly approved because of their opinion?

JR

(in reply to S_Ellzey)

Post #: 109

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/20/2003 2:54:27 PM

Mr-Nat

Posts: 51
Joined: 1/1/2002
From: Denver, CO, USA
Status: offline

Steve,
Russ Miller did not talk to any of us till a week after the EC meeting. We in Dist IX had no prior knowledge of the rule changes.
Russ informed me thjat he voted against because they only had 1 1/2 hours appx to digest the changes before a vote was called
for. He was in favor of holding off the vote till the feb EC meeting,not because he agreed with DB.
Don't know where you got your info. All of us were in the dark like the rest of the jet guys.
We don't need to be throwing rocks at each other.

Respectfully
Nat Lancaster

PS I have not talked to Russ since and I am an AVP.

< Message edited by Mr-Nat -- 11/20/2003 9:55:51 AM >

(in reply to S_Ellzey)

Post #: 110

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/20/2003 3:01:29 PM

J_R

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline

Does anyone know why Jim McNeill, D 5 VP placed an item on the agenda to increase the fuel limits for jets and then pulled it from consideration; and then voted against the new rules in the first meeting?

JR

(in reply to Mr-Nat)

Post #: 111

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/20/2003 3:31:01 PM

sfaust

Posts: 1807
Joined: 9/6/2002
From: Boston, MA, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot
Why don't you see scale pilots doing short field landings, especially the bush planes, Cubs, etc? Because they are afraid of getting too slow. With an airspeed bug that beeps when going to slow, and maybe buzzes or makes a differant --Manually Fix-- different differ ant differ-ant diffract deferent differing differently difference differed afferent efferent sound when going too fast landings would be much improved and new pilots would learn how to land much faster.

I think its all who you are flying with. Maybe we are flying with a more experienced bunch of people, or your perception is based mainly on the local sport fliers in your area and not from attending many giant scale events. Most of the people that I know and fly with are all quite accomplished. There is the odd one or two that we worry about, but on the whole no one feels the need to keep looking over their shoulder. I constantly see pilots slipping in Cubs for short field landings. I see then do one wheel landings, short field, slips, etc. Touch and gos all evening long. Its one of the main reasons they bought them. And I see this at all the events I attend (about 12-15 a year), from mid Maine all the way down to So Carolina. So I think its a pretty accurate picture as far as the northeast is concerned. Though, I would be the first to admit that things may be much different in other locations.

Maybe there is a need for some pilots to have an airspeed bug. However, I think if one was available it would be a novelty at first, then fade away with limited sales. For the most part I think the bad landings are not because of airspeed, but because they don't have the experience with the airplane to anticipate and react quickly enough from minor upsets or thinking ahead, thus they get behind the airplane. Thats the most likely scenario I see at the local field. Rarely do I see this with the scale, turbine, or giant scale pilots or at events, although it does happen on occasion.

(*)edited to fix the double quote box

< Message edited by sfaust -- 1/15/2004 5:41:42 PM >

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Post #: 112

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/20/2003 3:32:19 PM

MrMike

Posts: 997
Joined: 12/23/2001
From: Pine Creek - 6800MSL, CO, USA
Status: offline

Steve Ellzey wrote ...
>>>
Russ Miller had talked to turbine pilots in his district prior to the meeting and they asked him to vote against the proposal until they saw it, so he did what the turbine guys in his district asked him to do. I wish the Dist IX turbine guys would have asked what the details where so they could have supported this effort.
<<<

I need to back up Mr-Nat here. Nat is a current Dist 9 AVP and I am a former AVP in the same district - both of us are active in the model jet world. While Russ Miller (our District 9 AVP) is not the best communicator, he DOES seek advice from the (admittedly small) jet community in his district. Regarding the turbine rules issue at hand, I sent an email to Mr. Miller encouraging his FULL SUPPORT of the rules modifications - I drew his attention to what JPO was working on at the time (that package included, among other improvements, the buddy box deal which we all support 100%). Steven, I believe I copied you on that email - I will dig it out of my archive and resend it to you.

Word came down following the EC meeting, that Mr. Miller opted to vote against the rules change because of two factors:
(1) The rules package presented included MORE than what he was expecting; that is, it contained more than what JPO was independently working on (none of us in Dist 9 knew about the turbine rules advisory cmte reporting to Don Lowe's safety cmte), and
(2) because of that and no time to comprehensively review (and consult with his jet community constituency) the added scope of changes.

I am speculating he was concerned about the potential for mandatory application of speed limiters - hence, in addition to the factors noted above, he opted for a NO vote.

I informed him, after the EC meeting via email, that if his NO vote stemmed from the speed limiter concern his vote was wise. We have had previous email exchanges with him on speed limiters - what they do, what they can't do, and the fact - aside from what JetCat offers, there is no integrated speed limiter solution for ALL turbine installations.

In closing my response, I want to emphatically emphasize that ALL turbine waiver holders in our area are FULLY SUPPORTIVE of the JPO-authored components of the new rules. We ARE NOT supportive of mandatory speed limiters for the reasons presented earlier.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions of what transpired among the jet community within our part of Dist. 9. We value Mr. Miller's support and understanding of our segment of the hobby and we will continue to work with him in a positive manner.

Vr,
Mike

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(in reply to Mr-Nat)