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URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 2:45:36 PM   
tp777fo



Posts: 875
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Schertz, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Guys, there's a huge battle going on at AMA. The Jet Pilots Organization and the AMA Executive Council agreed to and the EC voted to approve a set of turbine rules and regulations. Dave Brown didnt like the rules that passed. He has now called for an emergency meeting of the EC to review/rescind/rewrite the approved rules package. If he can do it to the jet guys he do it to the 3D guys, helicopter guys or any other group on th AMA. Look at the threads in the jet forum "JPO Statement" and another one about Turbine safety. Call your AMA officials and express your displeasure that one guy can change the rules by himself - your group may be next.

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       Post #: 1

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 2:53:56 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I think he can do that. But what are the new rules? Maybe we should know what they are before we pass judgement?

(in reply to tp777fo)
       Post #: 2

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 4:20:28 PM   
maverick



Posts: 1575
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Alameda, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

I think he can do that. But what are the new rules? Maybe we should know what they are before we pass judgement?

Go look at this thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/JPO_Statement/m_1270824/tm.htm

It is not the rules that are in question. These were worked on by the Jet Pilots Organization and presented to the AMA Executive Council who then voted them into law. Dave Brown (AMA President) does not like the new rules and is trying to have them overturned by exerting pressure on the EC. Dave Brown does not have the right to overturn any rules that he does not like. He does have the right to call a meeting to discuss, but it is up to the EC to vote on the rules.

The problem here is that due process was followed and then because one person does not like the outcome, he thinks he can strong arm the EC into making changes.

Email you District VP and let him know you disagree with one person being able to influence the whole running of the AMA because of their personal beliefs.

Who's next? DB also has his sights set on the 3D flyers and the heli flyers. If we don't take a stand now he will ruin this hobby for everybody.

< Message edited by maverick -- 11/13/2003 8:21:51 AM >

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(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
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RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 4:51:03 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		If he doesn't like the rules then he can certainly call a meeting to discuss and ask that they be changed or overturned. If this happens then blame the ****'s on the EC not Dave Brown. But I will wait to see what he wants changed, why, and the final rule before I pass judgement. I personally don't want to see a bunch of reckless model jets flying over my house, some rules need to be made.

Looks like you are jumping to conclusions to me, the JPO website says that the EC committe is making changes to the rules and polishing up the language, not Dave Brown.

(in reply to maverick)
       Post #: 4

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 4:55:25 PM   
maverick



Posts: 1575
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Alameda, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Looks like you are jumping to conclusions to me, the JPO website says that the EC committe is making changes to the rules and polishing up the language, not Dave Brown.

You don't know the full story of what is going on behind the scenes. You can only see what is published on the outside. DB is absolutely behind trying to change what was already put in place. And your comment about reckeless model jet flyers is unwarranted and uncalled for. Jet flyers are amongst the most professional and proficient model aircraft flyers around. Look at the last two deaths caused by model aircraft. Were they involving jets? No way. They were from a helicopter and a sport plane. Don't tell me jet flyers are reckless and dangerous, as that is just absurd!

< Message edited by maverick -- 11/13/2003 8:57:53 AM >

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RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 4:57:25 PM   
maverick



Posts: 1575
Joined: 11/29/2001
From: Alameda, CA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

some rules need to be made.

You don't understand. There are already many rules associated with model turbine flying. This is the most controlled aspect of any model aircraft flying. Go read the thread I posted above and you will see them. The real issue here is not the rules, but the way one person thinks they can strong-arm the EC into changing them.

_____________________________

Maverick: "Too close for missiles, I''''m switching to guns!"

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 6

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 5:05:35 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		More and more rules need to be made for jet turbine, they are just to fast and heavy. We don't need a bunch expensive jets punching through the roofs of homes as some have done. I don't care for paying $58 of my dues just so jet turbine pilots can operate on the same set of rules as a park flyer! Otherwise you guys can certainly go out and start a modeling club of your own.

(in reply to maverick)
       Post #: 7

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 5:33:49 PM   
cnbhome


 

Posts: 125
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Reno, NV, USA
Status: offline 		Sport-Pilot... After many years of racing Formula Atlantic and having my share of close calls, the closest I have ever come to death was when a Sport-Pilot lost control of his T-34 and creased my head. He gave no warning just stood there in panic. Most if not all Jet pilots use a spotter and have to demonstrate real ability before they get the Waver. Before you complain about jets you need to get a waver so you can prove how easy it is and how more rules are needed. Yes the Jet community needs to clean up some of the grandfathered pilots but they are far fewer than the out of control Sport-Pilots that are out there. Walk a mile in someone elses shoes first before you complain.

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 8

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 5:34:27 PM   
Matt Kirsch



Posts: 7040
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline
quote:

The real issue here is not the rules, but the way one person thinks they can strong-arm the EC into changing them.


Sounds to me like he is just doing his job. He IS the AMA president, after all, and it's his duty to make sure things are done right to the best of his ability.

(in reply to maverick)
       Post #: 9

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 5:40:46 PM   
DocYates



Posts: 2635
Joined: 1/2/2002
From: Killen, AL, USA
Status: offline 		Sport Flier,
If you believe that the people out there flying turbines are reckless, you are certainly uninformed. If you believe that your $58 dues, and the increase you saw was caused by a "bunch of jet fliers", you are uninformed. These planes may be heavy, but most weigh less than some of the giant scales being flown. Personally I will take my chances on the flight line at any jet meet and feel safer than standing on the flight line on a "regular Sunday at the field".
Tommy

(in reply to Matt Kirsch)
       Post #: 10

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 5:46:33 PM   
Scar



Posts: 2276
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Peoria Hts, IL, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Matt Kirsch

quote:

The real issue here is not the rules, but the way one person thinks they can strong-arm the EC into changing them.


Sounds to me like he is just doing his job. He IS the AMA president, after all, and it's his duty to make sure things are done right to the best of his ability.


Matt,

Good point. Real leaders have people angry with them all the time. Apparently the AMA president promptly exercised his prerogative. Not like he waited for a crisis. When are elections? That'll be a measure of how he acted.

Just watching,
Dave Olson

(in reply to Matt Kirsch)
       Post #: 11

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 5:56:43 PM   
CFII1974



Posts: 699
Joined: 3/19/2003
From: Sand Springs , OK, USA
Status: offline 		Sport Flyer
You comments show complete ignorance on you part. As has already been stated flying jets is the most regulated and safety stringent subset of this hobby. Thank you for your comments but next time you should save them for a subject you know something about.

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(in reply to DocYates)
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RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 6:08:13 PM   
F106A



Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Clifton, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		Matt/Scar,
I can't wait for your comments when he starts "doing his job" on the part of the hobby you enjoy.
Jon

(in reply to CFII1974)
       Post #: 13

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 6:30:35 PM   
Matt Kirsch



Posts: 7040
Joined: 7/5/2002
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		F106A, the rules were already in place. He is questioning those rules, not imposing them.

If the EC sees fit to "do their job" on my areas of interest, I would want somebody like Dave Brown raising his hand and saying, "Are we SURE this is how we want to handle things?" That's ALL he's done, and if we are to believe what DB writes in his columns, he is for FEWER and SIMPLER rules. This is a good sign. It means that you jet jocks might not have quite as many new rules to contend with.

(in reply to F106A)
       Post #: 14

RE: URGENT - Huge Battle at AMA - 11/13/2003 6:42:10 PM   
J_R


 

Posts: 4446
Joined: 1/4/2002
From: Corona, CA,
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

More and more rules need to be made for jet turbine, they are just to fast and heavy. We don't need a bunch expensive jets punching through the roofs of homes as some have done. I don't care for paying $58 of my dues just so jet turbine pilots can operate on the same set of rules as a park flyer! Otherwise you guys can certainly go out and start a modeling club of your own.

Sport_Pilot

If we eliminate every segment of radio control where someone has had an accident and punched a hole in a roof, the only thing left would be park flyers. This hobby has always expanded as technology changed. I am sure that some free flighters, in the past, felt the way you do about turbines, as radio control emerged. The AMA is an organization built on advancing aeromodeling. The turbine guys, of which I am not one, are the most regulated segment the hobby has ever seen. I can only wish that the average AMA member was as concerned about every accident, every crash, every airframe failure and every wayward pilot as the turbine waiver holders are. The entire hobby would be a much safer for all of us.

Are there people that should not be holding a turbine waiver? Probably. Are there people that should not be off a buddy box with a trainer? Or, tail touching, or pylon racing, or, or, or? Of course there are.

So little of your dues goes to pay for insurance that it is debatable whether even bringing up the cost of dues is relevant. That rant might be better aimed at the terrorists of 9/11.

You need to take another look at the facts and try to get them into focus.

JR

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)