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RE: P-38 - 6/29/2004 6:07 AM   
nemesis4u



Posts: 3037
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From: Bryan, TX, USA
Status: offline 		last of them..

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       Post #: 151

Check OUt the New PICS! - 6/29/2004 6:11 AM   
nemesis4u



Posts: 3037
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Joined: 4/4/2002
Last Login: 5/3/2012
From: Bryan, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Like the KMP's NOW???? And all the 2nd generation P-38's from Kmp have the problems FIXED according to Mr Kondor and Matt...

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RE: P-38 - 6/29/2004 6:47 AM   
Ram-bro


 

Posts: 4552
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Joined: 1/22/2002
Last Login: 5/22/2012
From: Bennington, NE, USA
Status: online 		Hey , these look good. I like what you guys have done with them. I can tell the KMP by the gun ports . It helps when they don't look like ARFs. But I will still wait for the p61. I hope no one takes my statement wrong, its just that for the cost, and that plastic toy look. You guys did it the right way. Thye fly great from what I have seen. My extra 2% worth.

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       Post #: 153

RE: P-38 - 6/29/2004 6:55 AM   
hattend



Posts: 2298
Score: 105
Joined: 11/29/2001
Last Login: 5/22/2012
From: King Salmon, AK, USA
Status: offline 		It's not an ARF but here is another P-38: http://www.rcairplane.net/index8.html

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       Post #: 154

RE: P-38 - 6/29/2004 5:15 PM   
Robby



Posts: 2199
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Last Login: 5/22/2012
From: SheCarGo, Sillynoise, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Paul Grubich ,,
Nice write up on RCW.com of the event..
One of the things I really like about your site is when you post a pic,
you also give a short narration of the plane and owner.. Wish all sites
did that...
Looks like you guys had some great fun..

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       Post #: 155

RE: P-38 - 6/30/2004 7:34 AM   
Paul Grubich



Posts: 426
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Joined: 12/6/2001
Last Login: 10/7/2011
From: Cedar Rapids , IA,
Status: offline 		Thank you very much Robby, I try to make the site informative and entertaining.
Paul
www.rcwarbirds.com

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       Post #: 156

RE: VQ Crime Scene Investigation - 7/3/2004 2:59 AM   
kram



Posts: 928
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From: ames, IA, USA
Status: offline 		After six days of interviewing witnesses, reviewing video, and picking over the wreckage, my final report is in.

Remember how I said early on that I either lost an engine or did something stupid?

Well, both are true.

I ran out of gas on the right engine.

I have to give LarryS the credit for the idea. It logically explains the two circumstances I couldn't otherwise explain: 1)The most likely reason a plane that had shown NO bad habits in 6 flights suddenly behaves awfully??...engine out. 2) The most likely reason an engine that had been running perfectly all day (month) would stop??..run out of fuel.

I took off first and the other two 38's didn't get up for at least two minutes. We then engaged in thrilling group flybyes and both me and my spotter lost track of time. In retrospect, and compared to other videos, it had to be about 10 minutes. I then tried to make 2 passes: one to drop and check gear and one to drop flaps and land . My tanks are timed on the ground at 12 minutes full throttle and most of the flight was close to full throttle or at. My tanks were both badly smashed. The left had @1/4 tank left, the right none and a big crack. I assumed initially that it had leaked on the ground, but I no longer think so.

I will now quit obsessing over the investigation and proceed with the punishment phase.

mt

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       Post #: 157

RE: VQ Crime Scene Investigation - 7/4/2004 6:12 AM   
Mustang51


 

Posts: 1045
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Joined: 1/20/2002
Last Login: 5/20/2012
From: Norristown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear of your demise.
I think this teaches us all a lesson... Treat, and approach these "models" as if they were "full scale".
Maintenance, hours, fuel consumption...
Far fewer airplanes will go in.

-Mustang51

< Message edited by Mustang51 -- 7/3/2004 10:12:59 PM >

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       Post #: 158

RE: VQ Crime Scene Investigation - 7/4/2004 5:30 PM   
Yakirg


 

Posts: 16
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Joined: 5/28/2003
Last Login: 4/6/2005
From: Zoran, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		Kram, So sorry to hear about your loss!

It's been gr8 to folow this thread!

Hope you get a new one in the air quick!!

Yakir Green

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       Post #: 159

RE: VQ Crime Scene Investigation - 7/4/2004 6:12 PM   
evan-RCU



Posts: 3720
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Joined: 2/5/2002
Last Login: 5/21/2012
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear about the P-38. No matter what if you, I, or anyone else want to be flying any type of twin we have to be ready for an engine out and what to do when it happens to get the airplane back on the ground in one piece. I have found and I preach that good reliable engines are neccesary but that knowing what to do in case one fails is essential. I have great running engines on mine but half of the flights have ended with a one or none engine landings. Most of the times caused by my lowering the throttle trim too low on approach. I'm running .76 2 strokes with big props and it won't slow enough for my fear of the weak landing gear. The KMP does fly fairly well with one engine but I made larger rudders with alot more throw and have many hours flying twins to back me up.

Don't dwell on this crash, go get another twin and get in the air. Twins are great!

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RE: P-38 - 7/5/2004 3:14 AM   
LarryS


 

Posts: 28
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Joined: 7/18/2002
Last Login: 9/29/2011
From: Ankeny, IA, USA
Status: offline 		Test Flight Report:

Test flew my kmp today. kram was at the field along with rich (thanks guys for allowing me to test fly at your field!). Overall, good report (except for that nasty nose gear stuff). Mine is running saito .72 four strokes (inverted) with graupner 3 blade 12X8.

After fixing the nose gear (screws ripped out taxiing out to the takeoff - thank goodness for kram's parts box, ca and a clothespin), had a relatively good takeoff - seemed slow to rotate, but i did have the engines VERY rich. Flight was uneventful - i felt a little waggle in it which probably means my gyro needs to be turned down just a little. Landing was nice and slow with no bad habits (except nose gear collapsing on roll-out).

Overall, very good flying twin.

On the nosegear thing: I replaced mine while building with the drop in spring air unit. First problem was my fault - i should have put some kind of backer on the mounts (yes, I know better). Second one, nose gear just failed to lock (may have the regulator set too low). It doesn't make me down on the plane, i am going to look at some larger wheels to see if it improves grass performance.

I just want to say thanks to twinman, kram and all of the others who helped me out. Knowing the down elevator/incidence deal, for example, or the gyros stuff. All of these things made it a relatively uneventful test flight. Thanks guys!!!

Larry

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RE: P-38 - 7/5/2004 3:29 AM   
SJN



Posts: 5505
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Last Login: 5/22/2012
From: Copenhagen, DENMARK
Status: offline 		Congratulations!!

Glad to hear good stories about this plane....... I cant wait to recieve mine!

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       Post #: 162

RE: P-38 - 7/5/2004 7:14 AM   
kram



Posts: 928
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Last Login: 5/22/2012
From: ames, IA, USA
Status: offline 		Great Job, Larry!! I was fortunate enough to be there.

Really smooth flight and a nice landing. He even did a few aerobatics! Only problem was the same ol', same ol' with the nose gear. RV Man kept shakin' his head as if to say "I been there!" He has added some Robart struts and cannabalized the VQ wreckage to improvise some new gear for his KMP. Can't wait to see if that works better. Report to follow. If I still had a mid-size P-38 (sniff!), I'd probably try to retro-fit a good set of Robart 20# trike gear to fit it. As it is, I just have to re-learn how to fly my taildraggers.

I hope you don't mind I post a coupla pictures of maiden day.

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RE: P-38 - 7/5/2004 7:24 AM   
CHEETAH AIRCRAFT


 

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From: ., USA
Status: offline 		Very COOL !!!!!!!!

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       Post #: 164

RE: P-38 - 7/5/2004 7:40 AM   
CHEETAH AIRCRAFT


 

Posts: 87
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Joined: 6/19/2004
Last Login: 8/8/2004
From: ., USA
Status: offline 		From what I gather , the original kmp retracts aern't the best, but they should last a season off a paved runway, its best to replace them with other units. It still priced better than the other one that does'nt even come with retracts. The 2004/2005 retracts are supossed to be much better. Consider that if you equipped that plane with aftermarket retracts , it would cost you an additional $200 or so.

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RE: P-38 - 7/6/2004 2:27 AM   
twinman



Posts: 1638
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From: Katy, TX, USA
Status: offline 		LarryS says
"I just want to say thanks to twinman, kram and all of the others who helped me out. Knowing the down elevator/incidence deal, for example, or the gyros stuff. All of these things made it a relatively uneventful test flight. Thanks guys!!! "

To better explain the part about the "elevator/ incidence". I was present with the guys at the twin fly-in and assisted with the KMP. Again, as warning, the wing is 5 degrees positive incidence. It took up to 9 clicks down to get it to stop climbing at approx 1/2 throttle. If you went to full throttle, it still climbs. I have heard that 1/4" down elevator seems to be the sweet spot. Don't run out of up elevator with these adjustments.
Good Luck,
Twinman

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RE: P-38 - 7/8/2004 1:35 AM   
mookie1


 

Posts: 74
Score: 100
Joined: 1/7/2004
Last Login: 4/15/2008
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Status: offline 		Well I finally got the electric motors in and wired. I plan to get them on ASAP. I cut the battery hatches under the fuses. I am going to start a new thread. I'll post it.

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RE: P-38 - 7/20/2004 6:44 AM   
mookie1


 

Posts: 74
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Last Login: 4/15/2008
From: Charleston, SC, USA
Status: offline 		OK I am moving to the electric forum as it seems I have stopped all chatter on this thread. When I finish and fly it I will post for you guys. Thanks for the help. Mookie

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       Post #: 168

RE: P-38 - 7/20/2004 8:04 AM   
kram



Posts: 928
Score: 110
Joined: 7/11/2002
Last Login: 5/22/2012
From: ames, IA, USA
Status: offline 		Please Don't Go!

P-38's belong on the Twins Forum!

You didn't stop all the chatter on this thread. It just kind of naturally died because it was a comparison construction thread that started last winter and pretty much ran it's course.

You should start a new thread on Twins forum and title it something catchy like "The Electric VQoolaid Acid P-38 Test"

I guarantee there are a lot of us twin maniacs watching for posts by you, but not saying much 'cause we don't know much about electric. Eager to learn.

mt

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       Post #: 169

RE: P-38 - 7/20/2004 8:13 AM   
William Robison



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From: Mary Esther, Florida, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Well said, Mark.

Mookie, you're more than welcome here.

Bill.

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RE: P-38 - 7/21/2004 5:48 AM   
BadBart


 

Posts: 187
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Joined: 5/22/2003
Last Login: 11/3/2008
From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Just a quick question for "Nemesis"...are all those KMP P-38's from the same field/club? I'm still trying to decide between the KMP and VQ...is there something that all those guys figured out that caused them to go with the KMP as opposed to the VQ?
Thanks,
Pat

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RE: P-38 - 7/21/2004 5:53 AM   
nemesis4u



Posts: 3037
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From: Bryan, TX, USA
Status: offline 		BADBART..... ACtually the P-38's are ALL MINE <<<hahahahahaaa..
Ok Really only dreaming..
The P-38 Demo group did a lot of modifying the color scheme some replaced the stock retracts etc...But Ultimately I believe as told me by a memeber of the Team ,,,the KMP's overall are a better value...I am not wanting to put words in their mouths but that is the translation I got...
P-38 Demo team...Need your help here....

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RE: P-38 - 7/21/2004 5:34 PM   
-Stevo-



Posts: 154
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Last Login: 8/29/2010
From: Vacaville, CA, USA
Status: offline 		As someone closely tied with the "Forked Tailed Devil's" P-38 demo team (I'm their "official" photographer and a soon to be member) I'll speak up for them. The team is made up of members of two different clubs, although some of us are members of both. The KMP, as far as I know, was picked over the VQ for no special reason. At the time the airplane was picked the KMP was new on the market. Not a whole lot of information on it's construction and flying abilities were known other than what we got from the importer and what was in the adds. One of the members, after destroying the KMP P-38, even built the VQ (but he also got another KMP to build again). Both planes have there strengths and weaknesses, if you read through this thread most of them are covered in here. But if you have any specific questions I will do my best to answer them for you.

< Message edited by Stevo-RCU -- 7/21/2004 9:35:09 AM >


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RE: P-38 - 7/21/2004 10:14 PM   
BadBart


 

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From: Orlando, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I just was curious as to why they were all KMP models. I am at a standstill as to which model to purchase. I was leaning towards the VQ but after seeing that the P38 Demo team has the KMP model....hum...

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RE: P-38 - 7/22/2004 10:09 AM   
-Stevo-



Posts: 154
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Joined: 3/10/2002
Last Login: 8/29/2010
From: Vacaville, CA, USA
Status: offline 		If you plan on building it straight out of the box, with no mods made, I would go with the VQ. The photo's that are floating around of the demo team's P-38's are NOT what they look like right out of the box.


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       Post #: 175

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