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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 11/10/2005 5:45 PM   
L Turner


 

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Status: offline 		Gents,

Wonderful project, the F-35. Could you specify the approximate cg or balance point at which it flys as a percentage of the overall length?

I fly an MW-44 JHH sabre and am looking for a new winter project. Been thinking of about a 40 inch span F-22 for the MW44, but lack any good plans except rough 3 views and templates for the old YF-22 prototype. The single engined F-35C might be a better scratch build project.

Do you know if anyone is working on a F-35 of about 40 inch span & 60 inch length for the MW-44? Oakdale aircraft might be able to produce custom plans that size.



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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 11/10/2005 7:02 PM   
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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 11/10/2005 10:22 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: L Turner

Gents,

Wonderful project, the F-35. Could you specify the approximate cg or balance point at which it flys as a percentage of the overall length?

I fly an MW-44 JHH sabre and am looking for a new winter project. Been thinking of about a 40 inch span F-22 for the MW44, but lack any good plans except rough 3 views and templates for the old YF-22 prototype. The single engined F-35C might be a better scratch build project.

Do you know if anyone is working on a F-35 of about 40 inch span & 60 inch length for the MW-44? Oakdale aircraft might be able to produce custom plans that size.




I know Russ at Oakdale made a custom set of parts and plans on a much smaller size for someone, no reason why he could not do a larger one for you.
Also, the fiberglass version of this plane is now available, too, saves a LOT of building.
Look for a review of the original sized Oakdale F-35 coming soon in RCJI.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 11/10/2005 10:24 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: L Turner

Gents,

Wonderful project, the F-35. Could you specify the approximate cg or balance point at which it flys as a percentage of the overall length?

I fly an MW-44 JHH sabre and am looking for a new winter project. Been thinking of about a 40 inch span F-22 for the MW44, but lack any good plans except rough 3 views and templates for the old YF-22 prototype. The single engined F-35C might be a better scratch build project.

Do you know if anyone is working on a F-35 of about 40 inch span & 60 inch length for the MW-44? Oakdale aircraft might be able to produce custom plans that size.



PS the F-22 and F-35 are totally different aircraft, of somewhat similar appearance.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/24/2006 10:23 AM   
aldousyuen


 

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Status: offline 		Dear friends,

Long time no talk to you all. I have been biz travelling a lot, a lot. Just managed to settle things down. Now back to building models.

I have pulled a carbon fibre F-35 fuselage, and in the progress of building a small F-35, to be powered by 2 Schebeller DS51s for VTOL experiment. Will post some picts later.

For those friends tried out VTOL before, please feel free to render your advise.

Cheers,
Aldous.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/24/2006 2:27 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		Good to hear from you! Look for a review of the F-35 in RCJI next issue.

Vtol? Why not? You can do it. Talk to Eddie Weeks, he did a vtol turbine from scratch. Tom Hunt also built a ducted prop one. I have not heard of anybody else having any actual success.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/24/2006 2:28 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		Good to hear from you! Look for a review of the F-35 in RCJI next issue.

Vtol? Why not? You can do it. Talk to Eddie Weeks, he did a vtol turbine from scratch. Tom Hunt also built a ducted prop one. I have not heard of anybody else having any actual success.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/26/2006 6:08 AM   
aldousyuen


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Easytiger,

Thanks. Where can I get further info of Eddie Weeks and Tom Hunt's projects?

Aldous.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/26/2006 2:40 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		The Tom Hunt project was published as "The Vertigo" in Model Airplane News about five years ago. Plans are available. It was a ducted prop thing.

Eddie Weeks is right here on RCU all the time, if you type "eddie weeks" in the search here, you can find stuff by him. Very talented guy.

Another guy named Eric Dainty built a 91 powered Harrier...I belive he got it to hover, but not to transition, about five years ago.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/26/2006 3:20 PM   
Dave03B


 

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ORIGINAL: EASYTIGER

Another guy named Eric Dainty built a 91 powered Harrier...I belive he got it to hover, but not to transition, about five years ago.


I have also seen a VTOL Harrier powered by a 91 on 'Fanfare' or 'Fantastic' ducted fan videos by traplet (from back in those days ). The project is also mentioned in 'Ducted fans for model jets' talking of some 20 different versions before a successful model capable of vertical lift off, stable hover, and land. ( I have the relevant info/photos from the book in a word doc if anyone would find it useful? pm or email me and i'll forward it to you)

I'll see if I can import a clip from the video to my pc also.....



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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/26/2006 3:24 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		That would be Eric Dainty, I beleive.

My guess(I'm hardly expert!) is that an EDF version like Aldous' could be totally succesful, coming from a competent modeller like him. The time has come!

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/26/2006 4:33 PM   
aldousyuen


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Easytiger,

I have the RCJI reporting Eric Dainty's Harrier, and had a chance some few years back talk with Mr. Jack Tse of Yellow Aircraft whom built the ultra light polyester resin Harrier fuselage for Eric. To vertically lift the model, the power to weight ratio need to be at least 1.5:1.

With the stock 2 DS-51-3ph+kontronics 600-17 producing around 11lbs of thrust, the total weight of the F-35 must be less than 7lbs. Although I'm using carbon fibre, the 5'6" version (the black one on the right of the pict I posted) may still exceed that with all the electronics in. So I scaled it down to 3/4 to come up with a 4'2" (the white one on the white). At the same time I also ordered 2 schuebeller DS-94+Lehnar2500(24lbs of thrust total) for the 5'6" version as it provides more thrust and room for experiment. I may use a MW-54 to replace the vertical lift DS-94 fan.......

Well, it will be a 10 (or more) years project.

I've found Eddie Weeks's project. Is Eric still flying? Do you have his Email?

Cheers,
Aldous.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/26/2006 4:54 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		Too cool! I don't think it will take you ten years...you'll have it flying within the year!

Of course, turbine totally eliminates the T/W issue.

But I think the electric motors are getting stronger and the batteries lighter every month, it's kind of like Moore's Law about computer power, it doubles every two years! Like the Lehner motors, they are a whole new level...

I have not heard anything about Eric Dainty in a few years...he had a website up, it's long gone.

Dave Bright, above, is talking about ANOTHER Harrier, one I was unaware of...

But Eddie Weeks, he's the man. He just busted through each problem, one at a time, did not listen to anyone saying he could not do it, and his stuff was totally successful...he's the man to talk to, me, I've never done a Vtol. I don't even fly helis!

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/26/2006 5:25 PM   
aldousyuen


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Easytiger,

I'm on the contrary. I only fly helis before knowing that turbine has been scaled down for models. My first turbine was JPX producing 12lbs of thrust but weighted nearly 4lbs! Then I started buying figter planes, F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, Mirage, Sabre, MIG, Rafale....When the JSF F-35 went under testing, I found no model out there and I decided to build myself. The plane I like most, however, is F-14. Here is my F-14 project besides the F-35 (The green one on the left is one of the Yellow 1/9 F-14s that I collected).

Eddie's harrier is turbine powered. I actually bought a spot welding machine to build stainless steel exhaust. But rotating a turbine exhaust nozzle with proper heat shield is something too hard for me at the moment. Let me experiment with the EDF first and I'll definitely go to turbine later.

I'll try to contact Eddie and see if he can lend me a hand.

Cheers,
Aldous.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/26/2006 5:41 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		I have your Oakdale F-14 on order for review when it comes out! Russ says pretty soon! Any progess on your small ones?

I think Eddie Weeks beat the problem of ducting the hot turbine exhaust by just swinging the whole engine downwards, no ducting at all.

His is not a Harrier, it's a non-scale thing called "the rig". He posted tons of stuff about how he did it here, flight videos, everything. He built two of them. There is a video of one of them crashing, it is pretty awesome to see, the engine stops, and it just comes down out of the air like a mudslide! Ouch!

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/26/2006 6:03 PM   
aldousyuen


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Easytiger,

You're right about EDF. Just check DS-51+Lehner motor produces 8lbs of thrust. I may have to go for 2 Lehner motor. Carbon fibre, lipo and latest motors technology provides an excellent combination.

I found a gettleman called Eddy powering up a harrier with AMT Pegasus. I'm aware of 'the rig' project, but the props at the wing tips for roll control are...!!! I'm going for something scale.

Russ has the F-14 plugs in States and is working hard to pull a few sample units. The small one (balsa built yellow in color) on the right of the last picts that I posted is my spare set of plugs. I can pull some in case Russ has problem doing it.

Cheers,
Aldous.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/27/2006 12:18 AM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		I hear you on the tip fans, not exactly scale!
BUT...the guy's model was successful. Repeatable, reliable vtol flight. I'd say he has learned a lot, and thought through things a lot, and would probably have a lot of insight on how to do it, even WITHOUT tip fans. I'd bet he thought carefully about alternatives. But, hey, you can ask him yourself, see if he can be of any help.

I'll probably do two Tomcats...one with Toki power, and one EDF.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 2/27/2006 10:10 AM   
aldousyuen


 

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Status: offline 		Just sent an Email to Eddie Weeks, awaiting his reply.

Aldous.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 3/1/2006 6:19 AM   
aldousyuen


 

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Status: offline 		Got useful info. from Eddie. VTOL for scale F-35 will be a very challenging project!

Aldous.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 3/1/2006 2:35 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		I figured he would be of some help. I'd guess HE thought about an F-35, too.

Challenging, but do-able, I am sure.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 3/1/2006 4:56 PM   
L Turner


 

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Status: offline 		Hello Aldous,

I am also working on a 75% version of the F-35 with Russ of Oakdale aircraft, for the MW-44. Been laminating 3/32nds balsa formers with 1/64 & 1/32nd ply, trying to fit 12 oz tanks in the wing roots while retaining enough strength in F13 & F14 to support Spring Air HD302s . If you decide to eventually make some FG moldings from your 3/4 version fuse, let me know, would save a lot of work for the next one!

Thinking of asking Russ to add some LE wing droop at the slat line of cores for the "C", and planning to add about 5 degrees fixed flaps to improve lift for grass field ops.

One of our club members (Phil) is definitly into EDFs (JHH F-4) and I am sure would be greatly interested if you decide to go with some type of STOL or VTOL F-35B. A wand start (no starter motor bullet) MW-44 might be short enough to rotate 90 degrees down to lift the aft end of a kero/electric hybrid. Would be one very interesting project!

Flying Electrons (Milwaukee)
Fond du Lac Aeromodelers Assn.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 3/2/2006 6:19 AM   
aldousyuen


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Easytiger,

Thanks for letting me know that Eddie is the man. I'm talking with him and he should make my life easier.

Hi Turner,

I also think about MW44 for the 3/4 scaled down version. But for jet model, I prefer the bigger 5'6" powered by MW54. Anyhow, 4'2" is a nice size for small turbines and 90mm EDFs. Besides Schuebeller DS51, I have auronaut and AP9000 on hand for comparison. Yes I'll ask a supplier here to pull a few CFRP/FG fuselage. Will see if Russ the possibility of producing a kit.

Although rotating a small MW44 inside the 5'6" is possible, it requires other equipment like prop at the wing tips for roll control. It will end up something like "the rig". I'm using EDF now because the exhaust ducting can be built with branch out nozzles to the wing tips, controlled by high speed servo with gyro for the airflow. In case the DS51 is not powerful enough, I'll use DS94. I bought a spot weild machine, but have no confident to build a stainless steel exhaust of the same kind for turbine. Any hot air leaking through the exhaust valve to the fuselage will be a disaster.

Cheers,
Aldous.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 3/4/2006 10:41 AM   
aldousyuen


 

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Status: offline 		Cover the 4'2" fuselage with Carbon fibre. Will do it for the foam core wing, taileron and fin. Try to make the total weight with a few strategic formers around 1lb. Also use other lightest material possible, honeycone to build the taileron pivot.

Aldous.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 3/4/2006 8:29 PM   
EASYTIGER


 

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Status: offline 		Nice work, as always. I see you got the foamie Su-27...I crashed mine the other day trying to hand-launch it. I am waiting for the landing gear to show up from Hong Kong before trying it again. Mine is twin EDF-64 with Zeta-plus motors. I am doing a complete review on it, I have pics of the complete construction process if you need them, but have not had a chance to write the article yet.

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RE: Oakdale Aircraft F-35 construction - 3/5/2006 2:15 PM   
aldousyuen


 

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Status: offline 		Hi Easytiger.

I bought a few foamies recently. Too bad to hear about your crashing. I have not started building it yet. It would be good to receive your picts. Please send them to aldous@xmlhk.com.

I'll be biz travelling tomorrow. Won't be in touch for a few days.

Cheers,
Aldous.

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