The How To's of designing & scratch building planes.  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       


Radio Synthesized Module & Receiver - RTF
Seller:  Roger Shipley
Details:   $155.00   |  11/20/2008   |  Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Scratch Building, Aircraft Design, 3D/CAD >> The How To's of designing & scratch building planes.
Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 12:27:53 AM   
Dago Red



Posts: 2857
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: Elmendorf, AK, USA
Status: offline
I havent seen a thread like this, so please exuse me if you have. I created this thread so you people that know about this can spill your guts and teach us that are in the start of this stage.

I have designed & build one plane taht flew great. My problem is that I never made planes for the plane,lol. So I cant really add to much to this thread, but the rest of ya, spill away, like to see what you can add to this.
       Post #: 1

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 1:42:31 AM   
SeenMCrash



Posts: 296
Joined: 10/2/2002
From: Krefeld, GERMANY
Status: offline
There was a backyard Flyer issue a couple years back, about making foam tray flyers. In it, they talked about what the normal proportions for the size of control surfaces were. Right now I can't remember them from the top of my head, but I'm sure someone does. I guess this is a good place to start? -Andrew

(in reply to Dago Red)
       Post #: 2

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 4:27:39 AM   
RCParkflyer



Posts: 35
Joined: 11/4/2003
From: Oconomowoc, WI, USA
Status: offline
I've just bought a Wattage F-22 Raptor that I am going to put together. What I am thinking of doing too, is drawing out the pieces and making a "Double Size" F-22 out of foam, that I can add 2 EDF's into. I don't know if anyone has tried something like this, most scratch build planes are balsa, but I'd like to stick with a foam core, and maybe fiberglass it. I'm thinking of using either Depron or Clorplast (sic) for inner support frames and folding wings out of depron too. Anyone have any thoughts on this, or am i wasting my time?

_____________________________

Don't you think thats a bit big to be flying in a park? :)
http://www.parkjets.com

(in reply to SeenMCrash)
       Post #: 3

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 5:00:13 AM   
starcad



Posts: 227
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Status: offline
Try looking up Chuck Cunningham's design articles in RCM around 1984

(in reply to Dago Red)
       Post #: 4

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 5:24:38 AM   
BMatthews



Posts: 9005
Joined: 10/4/2002
From: Burnaby, BC, CANADA
Status: offline
A good thread topic Dago. It's been done before but I don't think it's been done in such a way that folks can add small parts until the whole puzzle is in one piece.

Who knows, perhaps this'll be the start of a FAQ on designing.

OK, here's my first bit.

It all starts with an engine, or at least around here it does. From that engine you figure out how big a model you want to build. The size will suggest a maximum weight based on previous models and the expectations for flight performance will be based on that. Unfortunetly there is no way to calculate these first parameters because they are based on the performance of past models and the sizes and weights of those models. We select these first elements by example based on what we are familiar with.

From that basic wing size selection you move to airfoil selection. Not a biggie as we can pretty much say ClarkY, semi symetrical (I'm going to catch it for using THAT term ) or fully symetrical and have a fair idea of what these three categories will allow the model to fly like. The actual airfoil may be some high zoot item but it'll still fall into one of these basic families. At least for the most part they will.

Assuming a conventional model you need a tail. How big and how long a tail raises the topic of Horizontal Tail Volume Coefficient which ties in the wing chord and area and the length of the tail moment arm. There's also a Vertical Tail Volume Coefficient as well that factors in the fuselage length and side area, the side area of the wing if dihedraled and the tail moment arm again. Both these values have a "happy number" that goes with them. The optimum number may change slightly based on the airfoil and the type of model but for the most part the successful models of any specific type of model such as Pattern, Sport and Sailplanes all have the optimum values for these factors within a fairly narrow range at least for each category. What's the number you ask? It's been to many years since I saw a graph showing this data and I have no idea at present.

I'm going to stop now with a suggestion. The best way to learn more is to analyze as many models as you can find. Entering the span, area, nose length, tail length, stab area, stab chord, fin area, fin chord, fin span and a few other key elements for many models of differing types into a spreadsheet would allow us to calculate the optimum range of pretty much all these factors.

Nothing says a model has to be a certain shape but it DOES have to comply with the guiding factors that such a spreadsheet would show. After all Ugly Stiks and F22's both fly but they sure don't look like each other.

I remember those articles by Chuck Cunningham. They were very good and covered a lot. Does RCM offer them collected as a book?

< Message edited by BMatthews -- 11/25/2003 12:24:50 AM >


_____________________________

Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

(in reply to starcad)
       Post #: 5

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 5:36:19 AM   
cappio777



Posts: 571
Joined: 10/10/2003
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BMatthews

From that basic wing size selection you move to airfoil selection. Not a biggie as we can pretty much say ClarkY, semi symetrical (I'm going to catch it for using THAT term ) or fully symetrical and have a fair idea of what these three categories will allow the model to fly like. The actual airfoil may be some high zoot item but it'll still fall into one of these basic families. At least for the most part they will.



Oh yes you are gonna get it Bruce, bad bad bad doggy!
J/K

(in reply to BMatthews)
       Post #: 6

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 5:54:37 AM   
BMatthews



Posts: 9005
Joined: 10/4/2002
From: Burnaby, BC, CANADA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cappio777
Oh yes you are gonna get it Bruce, bad bad bad doggy!
J/K


HEAR YE HEAR YE! By the powers of the Great Administrator invested in me be it known henceforth that all across the great empire of RC Universe that the words "Semi Symetrical" shall be taken to mean "Relatively thick and lightly cambered airfoils that evidence a high degree of convex curvature on both the upper and lower surfaces". This shall be the rule of the land for ever more unto the end of time.

Offer void where prohibited by law. Coupons may not be redeemed in conjunction with other offers. The Surgeon General has determined that smoking printouts of this post can cause lung cancer and funny looks from your friends. Your mileage may vary. Batteries not included. Some assembly required. Cappio needs to fly more.

THERE ! ! ! Put that in your exhaust pipe and smoke it....

< Message edited by BMatthews -- 11/25/2003 12:55:39 AM >


_____________________________

Witty saying to be plagarized shortly.....

(in reply to cappio777)
       Post #: 7

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 5:59:06 AM   
cappio777



Posts: 571
Joined: 10/10/2003
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline

(in reply to BMatthews)
       Post #: 8

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 7:52:02 AM   
Mike James



Posts: 2466
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline
It would be great to have a "How to Design..." thread here, and even better if it could somehow be "stuck" to the top of the page, so it was always there as a handy reference.

Well...
That's exactly what William Robison has done, at the very top of this page, with the "Where to find what you want" thread.


_____________________________

Mike James
RC Design and Building - www.nextcraft.com

(in reply to cappio777)
       Post #: 9

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 2:12:20 PM   
CafeenMan



Posts: 3906
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline
OK, this may make me sound psychotic, but this is really what I do and it works for me.

I look at a bunch of airfoils and then imagine them in my mind's eye flowing through the air. When one "feels" right that's the one I use.

As for the rest of the aircraft, I use past experience and "if it looks right, it is" engineering. I do the same imaginary flying to check out the design before I start cutting wood. I usually build without plans.

I'm not going to lie to you and claim that all my designs have been winners, but most of them have been good with a few losers and a few really outstanding designs.

Check out the gallery link at my web site (url in sig) if you want to see some of what I've done.

BTW - I have the formulas for calculating tail volumes, etc. and have used them. My thoughts now is that they weren't worth the time they took to calculate because they didn't provide significantly better designs.

_____________________________

Work is what I do for the love of it. A job is how I pay for it. :)
Please visit AirfieldModels.com

(in reply to Mike James)
       Post #: 10

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 2:58:38 PM   
jerry dotson



Posts: 45
Joined: 9/25/2002
From: BAKER, FL, USA
Status: offline
Is there a way to post an Excel workbook. I have one that I would like to share with the forum but can't see a way to post it? It is not my work and I have not used it but it looks like Lee spent a lot of time building it. Below is the intro from it:

The AIRPLANE DESIGN CALCULATOR (c) was created by Lee Van Tassle. It is available for distribution and use for free, as
long as the complete package remains together. Thank you and enjoy.
I would first like to recognize the following sources where all this information was gathered from:
Chuck Cunningham, CUNNINGHAM ON R/C, RCM
Kenneth Smith, DESIGN & BUILD your own R/C AIRCRAFT, Robson House Hobby Supplies
Howard Chevalier, MODEL AIRPLANE DESIGN AND PERFORMANCE FOR THE MODELER, Challenge Engineering, Inc
Andy Lennon, BASICS OF R/C MODEL AIRCRAFT DESIGN, Model Airplane News
Roy Day, GET THE CG RIGHT, Model Airplane News
George from the PALOS R/C Flying Club for the updated CG formulas. http://www.palosrc.com/instructors/cg.htm

(in reply to CafeenMan)
       Post #: 11

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 3:00:08 PM   
CafeenMan



Posts: 3906
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Spring Hill, FL, USA
Status: offline
That workbook is all over the internet. You could post a link or put it in a zip file and upload it here.

_____________________________

Work is what I do for the love of it. A job is how I pay for it. :)
Please visit AirfieldModels.com

(in reply to jerry dotson)
       Post #: 12

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 3:16:03 PM   
jerry dotson



Posts: 45
Joined: 9/25/2002
From: BAKER, FL, USA
Status: offline
You are so right. Google found it right away.


http://www.pandasclub.fsnet.co.uk/index-page3.html

_____________________________

He who hoots with the owls can't soar with the eagles!

(in reply to CafeenMan)
       Post #: 13

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/25/2003 10:28:35 PM   
aimmaintenance



Posts: 693
Joined: 9/11/2003
From: Montpelier, OH, USA
Status: offline
OK BMatthews I'm just gettin started scratch building and when you said.

A good thread topic Dago. It's been done before but I don't think it's been done in such a way that folks can add small parts until the whole puzzle is in one piece.

Gave me an idea that might fit just what DAGO RED is saying and might be fun.

Build a plane here with pictures of drawings etc that anyone can contribute to then I'll build it for real.

I'll start by picking the engine. (Webra 50)
someone else designs the wing (not foam core )
someone jumps in with a fuse design
fin and rudder
stab and elev
landing gear
and all the other things that are needed

_____________________________

If it's still in one piece means I haven't flown it yet.

(in reply to jerry dotson)
       Post #: 14

RE: The How To's of designing & scratch building planes. - 11/26/2003 3:46:52 AM