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Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 1:19:39 AM   
big_ stik_ 40


 

Posts: 46
Joined: 9/16/2003
From: Kendallville, IN, USA
Status: offline 		The definition for unusual in this forum seems to be " aircraft that don't rely on an airfoil to provide lift" so I think this will be ok here, since only part of the flight uses airfoils.

I am really interested in building a rocket plane that would be propelled by "E" class solid fuel model rocket engines. "E" class engines are fairly cheap, safer and easier to get.
My ideas.......a plane that goes up vertically like a rocket powered by a rocket engine, and then is controlled by radio control for it's glide back down to earth. I have seen several commercial models, but most of them were powered by smaller "A" - "C" size engines. I want a plane that will be light enough to glide around for awhile. Has anyone scratch built any models of this type? Any tips or suggestions? Also, if you have any pics of models with rockets to shorten take off length (C-130 type planes) I would like to see/ hear about it. ( AMA allowed it, last time I checked) What EXACTLY does AMA allow? I want this to be safe and legal.

< Message edited by big_ stik_ 40 -- 11/26/2003 1:32:54 AM >
       Post #: 1

RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 2:11:09 AM   
Billiam411


 

Posts: 433
Joined: 11/29/2002
From: suberb of Detroit, MI, USA
Status: offline 		BLECH! "E" Engines? Why so small, get "F"s, much more powerfull, anyway, forget the safe and legal stuff, it's not going to happen. There was a thread about a guy who put rockets on his aerobird and shot them at targets. It wasn't legal.


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bout time to git the old dusty trail....
*walks backward slowly*

(in reply to big_ stik_ 40)
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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 2:32:33 AM   
big_ stik_ 40


 

Posts: 46
Joined: 9/16/2003
From: Kendallville, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I don't have my high powered rocket permit yet, and I came to the conclusion that E engines would be a good starting point, and if successful I may boost the engine impulse.
As to the legality comment, I will stick to my previous comment on that point. I want to keep everything legal (state and AMA). I don't want to be responsible for any accident that I can possibly prevent.

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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 5:59:51 AM   
Mel Francis



Posts: 325
Joined: 9/5/2003
From: Oconomowoc , WI, USA
Status: offline 		Sounds like the 'ultimate' glider class.

The wings should fold back along the sides for ascent, then spring into position at altitude.

Actually, you could just model it on the existing Space Shuttle, for a good starter vehicle!

Good luck....

(in reply to big_ stik_ 40)
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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 9:31:28 AM   
heli001



Posts: 1132
Joined: 4/23/2002
From: Charlotte, NC, USA
Status: offline 		On the 3 hours of Rocket Challenge on Discovery, there was a team that pretty much did that....

The poor RC pilot looked kind of overwhelmed at dead sticking the model back to earth......

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Helicopters Don't Fly....They Beat the Air Into Submission..!

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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 5:59:46 PM   
Unstable



Posts: 1598
Joined: 2/7/2002
From: South Bound Brook, NJ, USA
Status: online 		2M glider capable of a highstart launch.

this will be able to take the abuse of a powered launch.

build a cradle for it to act as a launch rail and position the rocket motor towards the tail in a metal tube.

now for the ahrd part... you are going to need to find the correct thrust angle or else every time you launch it will spin out of control. so start off with low power engines and the rail almost horizontal. then work your way up.

after you get the angles and CG set you can start playing with multi stage boosters.


I know one person did this with a ZAGI flying wing. and it works well.

(in reply to heli001)
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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 6:16:12 PM   
Thomas B


 

Posts: 456
Joined: 7/14/2002
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Actually, most radio controled rocket gliders are designed for D and E class motors. The international competition class is based on E motors. Check out George Gassaway's great web page on radio controlled rocket gliders. Lots of info on high performance rocket gliders here:

http://members.aol.com/GCGassaway/rcgliders.htm

Estes sells a neat new ARF for D and E motors. Is is an updated StratoBlaster called the Centurions T-25. It really moves out on composite E motors.

The current AMA rules allow for radio controlled models being boosted by rocket motors up to 120 n/s (i.e, G class consumer motors that do not require a high power cert.) They do not cover larger rocket boosted R/C models and they specifically prohibit launching uncontrolled model rockets from a radio controlled model.

Radio controlled rocket gliders ARE safe and legal.

< Message edited by Thomas B -- 11/26/2003 6:17:13 PM >

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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 8:10:17 PM   
Mel Francis



Posts: 325
Joined: 9/5/2003
From: Oconomowoc , WI, USA
Status: offline 		Well, big stik, it looks like there's nothing new under the sun, and Thomas B's got you covered.

You'll be running to catch up to these guys........

Looks like the good luck has already started!

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< Message edited by Cannonball -- 11/26/2003 2:11:10 PM >

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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 8:53:07 PM   
big_ stik_ 40


 

Posts: 46
Joined: 9/16/2003
From: Kendallville, IN, USA
Status: offline 		On rocket challenge, the plane that the flew was a semiscale model of a NASA rocket. It was very large, and it didn't look like it glided very well .The plane didn't look like it had much wing area, and it seemed king of heavy. I thought it was cool, but I want to build something closer to the glider concept.
How high can an E motor take one of those gliders? Comparable to Hi start? That looks like a lot of fun, and something different that anyone else at the field. You mentioned putting the motor closer to the tail. I was thinking at or ahead of the center of gravity. Theoretically I think this would make it more stable. I am interested though, what are your reasons for putting it there. Do you think that would be better?
Thanks for the replies!

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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 9:35:13 PM   
tiggerinmk



Posts: 1527
Joined: 12/30/2002
From: Milton Keynes, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cannonball
Actually, you could just model it on the existing Space Shuttle, for a good starter vehicle!

I had an Estees rocket starter pack which consisted of a foam space shuttle and launcher. Wasn't very good, that shuttle flew like a brick, came down way before the ejected rocket motor tube on the parachute.....

_____________________________

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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 9:51:02 PM   
Mel Francis



Posts: 325
Joined: 9/5/2003
From: Oconomowoc , WI, USA
Status: offline 		Thomas B has supplied us with a great link above, check it out.

As for R/C rocket shuttles, this one seems to work pretty well.

The link to the shuttle is on Thomas' club page, linked above.

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< Message edited by Cannonball -- 11/26/2003 3:53:55 PM >

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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 9:51:15 PM   
tiggerinmk



Posts: 1527
Joined: 12/30/2002
From: Milton Keynes, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thomas B
Estes sells a neat new ARF for D and E motors. Is is an updated StratoBlaster called the Centurions T-25. It really moves out on composite E motors.

Nope, couldn't find it on the Estes web site. However, there is a Night Wing which looks like it could be adapted

_____________________________

If you can remain calm, while all around you is chaos...
then you probably haven't completely understood the seriousnes

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RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 10:02:52 PM   
big_ stik_ 40


 

Posts: 46
Joined: 9/16/2003
From: Kendallville, IN, USA
Status: offline 		I want to build my own plane, not a kit. I have seen the Estes models, and several others, but we have a long winter ahead and I need a project to keep me busy. (only way to not go crazy over flying deprivation) Thanks for the replies and link.
Anyone know about how muck performance you can expect from a glider on an "E" engine. I can't find estes G engines anywhere. On tower hobbies you can click on a link to A, B, C, D, E ,"F" or "G" engines, but the one for "G" goes nowhere. Go to www.rocketfun.com. It's in the center of the page, half way down. What's wrong with the link? Do they not sell them anymore? The "F" engine link does the same thing.

(in reply to tiggerinmk)
       Post #: 13

RE: Rocket Plane - 11/26/2003 11:42:52 PM   
Thomas B


 

Posts: 456
Joined: 7/14/2002
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Big Stik, there are other rocket motor makers besides Estes.... Estes fades out at about a E size. Aerotech makes the larger motors. I predict Tower used to sell the old Estes composite motors in the F and G range that are now discontinued. (The North Coast by Estes stuff)

E motors can boost a competition model well over 1000 feet in 6-8 seconds.

The rocktery equivalent to R/C Universe is Rocketry Online, a very fine web resource with tons of links and discussion and vendors and news. It is at:

http://www.rocketryonline.com

The vendors there will have the larger Aerotech composite motors. You can buy a reloadable E casing for 30-40 bucks and then fly composite E motors for about 3 bucks a launch. Check out the Aerotech web site at:

http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com

It is a shame that Kevin Mckiou's very nice web site is down. It had some great rocket glider stuff.

tiggerinva, I have given up trying to figure out the Estes Web site.... I promise the Centurian T-25 does exist. I have one...

The kit is at a lot of hobby shops...here is a picture:

You can buy the kit at:

http://www.discountrocketry.com/prod.itml/icOid/828

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< Message edited by Thomas B -- 11/27/2003 12:23:17 AM >

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