RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review  
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    • All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - General >> RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review
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    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 6/11/2008 11:25:36 AM   
    summerwind


     

    Posts: 1187
    Joined: 2/16/2007
    From: fresno, CA, USA
    Status: offline     		.

    (in reply to Aerobatic_Tom)
           Post #: 701

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 6/23/2008 11:03:00 PM   
    Harrier Mate



    Posts: 32
    Joined: 9/1/2004
    From: Grantham, UNITED KINGDOM
    Status: offline     		OK, its official the wife has let me clear the kitchen table to get back to work on my Stearman. Actually she just asked me to clear the kitchen table. I added the rest in hope really!!!!!

    The weight of my dummy cylinders for the radial engine is mounting up with the additional detail I've been adding, to such an extent that I wouldn't want to bolt it just to the fibre glass cowling at the front of the fuselage. Those 6 small self tapping screws would never take the weight in a 3 - 4g loop (if I can fly it that gently!). I have therefore designed a ply frame to surround the real engine mount (single cylinder inverted) which in effect connects the real engine mounting tube forward bulkhead to a new bulkhead which will sit flush with the back of the fibreglass cowling. The 6 dummy cylinders will be connected through the front face of the fibre glassl cowl to this bulkhead.

    I know. It sounds very complicated the way I've described it. A picture would be worth a thousand words and explain all - Problem is that I can't find the camera. Promise to add the photos on or before this weekend. Thereafter, I will document again as regular as possible. Doubt I can get it complete for this season but we have the UK National Championships at the end of August at RAF Barkston Heath in Lincolnshire and I would at least lke to have it looking like it could fly for that event.

    (in reply to summerwind)
           Post #: 702

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 6/27/2008 2:44:50 PM   
    Senfschneider55



    Posts: 47
    Joined: 1/15/2004
    From: 90596 Schwanstetten, , GERMANY
    Status: offline     		Has everyone already seen the new GAS radials from Seidel !!
    They are 7 cylinders 160, 250, and a real big one !!!
    I wish I could hear one running.
    Figures they would come out with them just after I bought
    an RCS 150 for my stearman

    Irv



    _____________________________

    The German word for bra = STOPSEMFROMFLOPPIN
    In God we trust. All others must pay cash

    (in reply to Harrier Mate)
           Post #: 703

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 6/27/2008 10:28:04 PM   
    Harrier Mate



    Posts: 32
    Joined: 9/1/2004
    From: Grantham, UNITED KINGDOM
    Status: offline     		Hi MustardCutter (is that right for Senfschneider?). There is another Stearman site to which we Stearman builders are all contributing (Flair PT17 Stearman builder, I think its called). Search for Flair Stearman and you will see it. You may get more responses there. I keep sending messages to the wron site and wonder why nobody answers!

    (in reply to Senfschneider55)
           Post #: 704

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 6/28/2008 8:27:05 PM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 542
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Link to Corsair Model Aircraft Club
    Corsair Model Aircraft Club (C.M.A.C.)

    If anyone lives close enough this is my 1st event as a Contest Coordinator. I have a jet turbine demonstration lined up and a full scale Stearman that will be giving rides out of Kent State airport during the event.

    If some of you guys showed up for the event we would have one hell of a cool flight line with all of those Stearmans!

    Link to "Warbirds At The Summit" Full Size PDF File



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    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 6/28/2008 8:39:27 PM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to Harrier Mate)
           Post #: 705

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 6/28/2008 9:16:56 PM   
    Harrier Mate



    Posts: 32
    Joined: 9/1/2004
    From: Grantham, UNITED KINGDOM
    Status: offline     		Cybertom,

    Too far for me to come from UK unfortunately! I wish you all the best with the event, however. Its never easy organising such things and tends to be a thankless task. For my part, I run the Flying Control Committee for UK's Royal International Air Tattoo (largest military airshow in the World (apparently!)). As a real aircraft event the overall organiser has never had any model flying as a forerunner to the show despite my encouragement!! As the RAF's 90th anniversary this year we will be represented in force, but no doubt there will be a huge US presence too. Thunderbirds were here last year as part of their European tour and you ahave the Red Arrows in the States at the moment.

    A few years ago I was lucky enough to fly a 2 seat ride in the US Navy F18, in return for giving the Sqn Exec a ride in one of our Harriers out of USMC Cherry Point. A good exchange!

    Again best of luck. Look forward to the photos.

    PS. Still making excellent use of the CDROM in terms of scale research and planning the eventual detailing - once I get the engine shoe horned into the cowl!

    Harrier Mate

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 706

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/22/2008 4:36:10 AM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 542
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Changed to Dubro Clevis for Flying Wires

    Well I am working on the Stearman to get it ready for "Warbirds at the Summit" and I went to order more Proctor 2C Turnbuckles and what do you know Tower is out of them. Well I panicked because I am trying to get this bird flying again. It turns out that this was the best thing that could happen. As a result of the shortage I reevaluated what I should use as a clevis to silver solder to my flying wires. Well it turns out that Dubro makes a far more scale clevis of the right size. Not only did they have a very scale looking clevis but they had threaded rod ends and mounting straps all nickel plated steel. What an improvement over the Brass Proctor gear. The best thing about it is not only is it stronger and far more scale looking, but it's cheaper than the Proctor stuff!

    I'm not going to use the screws and nuts that came with the clevis. Instead I am going to order some small 4-40 hex bolts and nuts that will look much more scale.

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    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 7/22/2008 4:42:42 AM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to Harrier Mate)
           Post #: 707

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/22/2008 12:50:49 PM   
    chasrb



    Posts: 940
    Joined: 1/12/2003
    From: Warrenton, VA, USA
    Status: offline     		Hey Cybertom I read about your upcoming event, man I wish I had the Strearman finished, I'd certainly be there if it were. Did you change out the cabanes or any of the other items we were talking about when the build was in full swing?

    Btw the other plane is now complete and the Stearman is back on the table to be finished.


    Take care.

    _____________________________

    Chasman

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 708

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/22/2008 10:01:06 PM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 542
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Upper Wing Incidence
    I haven't read about anyone else doing this but I have decided to reduce the incidence of the upper wing by 2-degrees as Jack had suggested way when. He felt that this would reduce the airplanes tendency to climb. I found out from a book that the full scale Stearman has what is called a "Lifting tail". The airfoil of the stabilizer has a significant amount of camber in it unlike the Flair Stearman model which has a symmetrical airfoil. Maybe reducing the incidence of the upper wing will make up for the reduced lift of the stabilizer. We will see...

    Cabane Struts
    I am moving the cabane struts to their scale location and I am using streamlined forged tubing from Carter Aircraft here in Ohio. I'll take some picks once I'm a little further along.
    Carlson Aircraft Streamline Aluminum Struts


    Once I have flown her with these modifications I think I will consider the Stearman I project complete.


    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 7/28/2008 2:46:09 AM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to chasrb)
           Post #: 709

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/27/2008 2:41:04 PM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 542
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Charsb,

    I made a Jig to ensure that the incidence of the upper wing is correct. As stated before the upper wing is now set to 1.5 degrees. This represents 2 degrees less than what was recommended by Flair. Hopefully this change balances out the airplanes propensity to climb. Jack's Stearman had a simple stabilizer (no airfoil) so in some ways that's similar to a symmetrical airfoil. Do you have any resources where we can get a good quality drawing of the full scale stabilizer airfoil? So far I have not found any technical information in any of my books that tells what it is.

    The following pictures represent the process of tracing the airfoil off of the plans and then cutting it out in wood to make a Jig. I used a laser leveler to level the airplane and get everything accurate. I put the Robart incidence meter on top and now it reads 1.5 degrees incidence.

    I know this Stearman will never be the great flyer I want it to be because of the weight of the Robart engine. At least its serving as a good test bed to learn about how the incidence of the upper wing affects flight.

    I can wait to redo this project with Stearman II which will use a Seidel radial (2lbs lighter). That change and a few other updates should bring me as close to perfection with a model Stearman as I am hoping for. I want a very scale model that looks, sounds, and fly’s like the real thing. Not too much to ask for is it?


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    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 7/27/2008 4:33:23 PM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 710

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/27/2008 9:24:01 PM   
    chasrb



    Posts: 940
    Joined: 1/12/2003
    From: Warrenton, VA, USA
    Status: offline     		Cybertom I'll see if I can dig up some info for you. I have to recheck my incidence on my upper wing, this would be a good chance to set it to 1.5 as you have. Did you change the lowers incidence as well?

    No, striving for the best is never too much to ask for!!
    great work on teh jib by the way. There is mfg who has a jig that is a no fail for setting the incidence, I can't recall who right now, but I think they only do 1/3 scale kits...

    < Message edited by chasrb -- 7/27/2008 9:25:44 PM >

    _____________________________

    Chasman

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 711

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/28/2008 12:28:38 AM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 542
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Charsb,

    You really can't change the lower wing incidence because it's built into the wing ribs. Possibly it could be done if someone went to the trouble of changing the configuration of the aircraft to use wing tubes instead of the aluminum bar it could be done. A modification like that I would consider for the Stearman II but not this one.

    Basically I'm trying to get the most out of what I have already built and learn something along the way. This modification may work and it may make things worse. You may want to wait and see what happens to me before you try this. Somebody else was supposed make this modification and report back but it never happened.

    Personally I would like to setup the model just like full scale. If we find out what specific airfoil was used on the stabilizer of the full scale Stearman we can calculate the difference in lift over the symmetrical airfoil. The "Lifting Tail" might create so much additional lift that it keeps everything perfectly balanced. That is something I would really like to prove or disprove. I wonder what BUSA did on their 1/3rd scale Stearman and how they are setting up incidence.



    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 7/28/2008 2:46:48 AM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to chasrb)