RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review  
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    • All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - General >> RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review
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    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/27/2004 4:25:21 AM   
    argon


     

    Posts: 69
    Joined: 2/15/2003
    From: Jupiter, FL, USA
    Status: offline     		Cybertom: Just ordered the stits video, that should be helful, also what size tape you use on 1/4 scale and is there any simulated stitching under the tape?.

    Regards.........ARGON

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 51

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/27/2004 4:53:32 AM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 525
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		The size of finishing tape on the leading edge of full scale aircraft is 4". The size of the tape that reinforces each wing ribs is 2", so you will need 1" and 1/2" finishing tape to be 1/4th scale. When you watch the video you will see that the simulated stitching is actually on top of the fabric. He shows you a really clever method of making convincing stitching.

    Photo PT-17(84) on your DVD in the "Extras\Construction" directory shows me making the simulated stitching with a T-pin as described in the video. Photo 94 shows the wings painted silver with Poly-Spray which shows off the simulated stitching. You can do it any number of ways, but the easy way they show you in the video is hard to beat.

    PS,
    I'm finished with the rivets on the fuselage. I also added torque links to the landing gear. I bought the torque links from Robart and made my own attachment points. Here is a recent photo:

    Attachments
    Click to see fullsize image.
    Click for fullsize


    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 5/26/2004 11:56:05 PM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to argon)
           Post #: 52

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/28/2004 4:25:00 AM   
    argon


     

    Posts: 69
    Joined: 2/15/2003
    From: Jupiter, FL, USA
    Status: offline     		Cybertom: The work you are doing on that Stearman is absolutely MQ.

    Congrats.....I just salivate at each new photo!!!!
    Regards....ARGON

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 53

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/28/2004 4:35:52 AM   
    argon


     

    Posts: 69
    Joined: 2/15/2003
    From: Jupiter, FL, USA
    Status: offline     		Cybertom: The silver solder where to get it and you need a special iron?/
    Also th turn bckel for the flying wires where to get them.

    Regards.....ARGON

    (in reply to argon)
           Post #: 54

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/28/2004 6:49:10 AM   
    Kmot



    Posts: 7468
    Joined: 6/11/2003
    From: Northridge, CA, USA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: argon

    Cybertom: The work you are doing on that Stearman is absolutely MQ.



    I agree completely! You should enter that plane in competitions. That is unless you really don't want a bunch of trophies around your house!

    FWIW, I have been looking for 1/4 scale pilot figures just for curiosity sake. I found a few 18" action figures but 90% of them are from the horror movie genre. There is one that is 'normal' but the clothing would have to be all custom made for a pilot and the doll as it is with the monster movie costume is $250:

    http://www.sideshowtoy.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=vanhelsing_fan&item=7105&type=store

    Then I found a site that sells Flair models (http://www.blackflyaero.com/Flair%20PT17.htm) and in the photo gallery they show a 1/4 scale pilot and also list a part number for him. Pilot - LLoyd FL128


    http://www.blackflyaero.com/Images/Flair%20images/Second_Flight08.jpg

    _____________________________

    Ahhh......screw it!

    (in reply to argon)
           Post #: 55

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/28/2004 11:38:34 PM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 525
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		LLoyd is sitting in my Stearman in post #33.

    Thanks for the complements. I am happy with the result. This is turning out to be a good first effort at a 1/4 scale aircraft. l still have a lot more to learn. There are lots of very talented modelers out there and it will be some time before I can count myself among them. I look forward to the day that the results of my efforts are truly worthy of all the great complements I have received.

    Now the task at hand will be to get her tweaked and flying reliably. This bird was not intended to be a Hangar Queen!

    If I can get through flight testing successfully and put on a nice flight display next week at our BIG Plane Fly-in, I will have one hell of a big smile on my face!

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to Kmot)
           Post #: 56

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/29/2004 12:00:28 AM   
    Kmot



    Posts: 7468
    Joined: 6/11/2003
    From: Northridge, CA, USA
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: Cybertom



    LLoyd is sitting in my Stearman in post #33.


    That is Lloyds twin brother Floyd. lol...

    _____________________________

    Ahhh......screw it!

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 57

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/29/2004 12:03:29 AM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 525
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		You are a lucky guy Argon. Building that Stearman has been one of the most rewarding things I have done. No matter how many BIG birds I end up building, this one will always be special to me. Your just getting underway and in fine style with that R780 hanging on the front. Enjoy this moment it doesn't get any better!

    Just promise me that you will electronically or mechanically limit the throttle on that thing. That's one of my goals for this weekend. I want to complete a very methodical flight test program. One of my goals is to find out where I need to limit the throttle. Typically, I attempt to fly in a scale fashion. I want this airplane to be SAFE which means establishing limitations. Once I figure out how much throw I need in the throttle I'm going to limit it mechanically.

    As far as how much power is enough, I'm going to perform a hammer head and make sure I have enough power to just hold her up there. It's not scale but it puts me in a power range which is nice to have when things go wrong and you need the extra power to save your airplane.

    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 5/28/2004 7:19:51 PM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to argon)
           Post #: 58

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/29/2004 12:17:55 AM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 525
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Here is an area where you can easily improve on what I have done. I bought the Proctor turnbuckles and cable a good while ago. The cables look like crap on a model this size. You just can't see it. This is why I bought the flying wires from Nelson Hobbies. Nelson recommends a clevis that Robart makes. I haven't seen it but they say it's the right size and has a very scale appearance.

    Don't buy any Proctor pieces except for the tail section. They look and work great for that particular application. I'm just using them because I already had them and can make them work. If I didn't have them I would be looking at the Robart clevis.

    You can call Proctor and order their catalog for $7.00. They make a lot of great stuff. Who knows, you might use more of their stuff on another project.



    Proctor Enterprises
    25450 N.E. Eilers Road, Aurora, OR 97002 USA
    Phone: (503) 678-1300 Fax: (503) 678-1342

    http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/main/index.html

    PS,
    That BIG 30% WACO on their main page is on my RADAR screen for next year. I'm thinking of that RCS 5-Cylinder gas radial!

    I flew in a YMF-5 several years ago on the Lake Erie Islands. It was my first ride in a Bipe.

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to argon)
           Post #: 59

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/29/2004 4:20:04 AM   
    argon


     

    Posts: 69
    Joined: 2/15/2003
    From: Jupiter, FL, USA
    Status: offline     		Cybertom: Did you used silver solder to attach the flying wires/, If so where to get ,and is a special soldering iron needed?
    Regards..........ARGON

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 60

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 5/29/2004 1:54:14 PM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 525
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Yes, I am attaching the flying wires with silver solder. My local hobby shop stocks it. There’s not a lot of silver in it but it is harder than normal solder and stands up to vibration a lot better. I have also noticed that it flows really well. Tower Hobby sells it.

    I did a search for silver solder on the web and there are many different grades are available. You might want to give one of the specialty suppliers a call and get a recommendation from them.

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to argon)
           Post #: 61

    More New Pictures - 5/31/2004 3:44:14 AM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 525
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		I finished adding in all of the Nelson Hobbies scale flying wires.

    I added a black stripe to the top of the engine cowl. I think it's for antiglare on full scale.

    I bolted on the engine and fired her up in the front yard. Sweeeeet!!!

    If the weather cooperates she will fly for the first time this year tomorrow.

    Attachments
    Click to see fullsize image.
    Click for fullsize         		Click to see fullsize image.
    Click for fullsize


    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 5/31/2004 12:58:59 PM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 62

    Flight Testing Update - 6/4/2004 4:48:19 AM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 525
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Today I was able to take her up 4-times. Here's what happened:

    Flying
    Aileron trim unnecessary it was dead on. Elevator trim is another story. I had to adjust the elevator mechanically to get more down trim because I gave her all the radio had and that wasn't enough. I have 3 degrees positive incidence on the horizontal stabilizer. From what I hear Flair is now recommending 3.5 degrees. After what I saw today I would go as far as 4 degrees.

    This Stearman looks incredible flying. Compared to my Great Planes Tiger Moth this plane has a slightly better roll rate. Altogether this airplane is pretty easy to fly. You must use rudder to coordinate turns.

    Landing
    My first landing was a ugly. I didn't have the rear tail wheel aligned correctly and it made a sharp right turn at the end of the runway when I was rolling to a stop and flipped over. Nothing more than a slight scrape on the tip on the wing was the total damage. I realigned the tail wheel with the rudder and all is fine.

    R780 Radial Engine
    I ran this engine at idle until the glow driver died. It lasted for 24-minutes with my 3000ma battery pack. I ran the engine several times for a total of about and hour of run time. A 32oz tank will give you about 18-minutes of flight time at typical cruising speeds with a few aerobatics thrown in.

    If I Could Change Anything
    1. I would have 4 degrees of positive incidence in my horizontal stabilizer instead of 3 degrees as stated in the instructions.

    2. I would change the way the cabane struts and flying wire mounts attach to the wing. Flair says to cover your wing and then cuts slots and epoxy the metal attachments in. I followed their recommendation for the flying wire attachment points, but the main cabane strut attachment point I glued in place before I put the covering on so I could make sure it was glued really well. As I feared, I had one of the flying wire attachment points loosen up. The cabane strut attachment points are rock solid. If I were to do it all over I would place hard wood blocks in the wings with blind nuts on the back and make my own combination cabane/flying wire brackets. It would make it really easy to cover the wings and it would be rock solid!

    3. I would cover the center section with a stronger material than the light balsa sheeting supplied. I had a "do gooder" crack the balsa on the center section with his thumb helping me lift if off of the table. The surface of the center section is kind of flimsy considering that's where it's going to be handled most often.

    Todays Adventure Rating
    I give today 8 out of 10. I did have a few issues on the first flight but they were easily resolved. As I tweaked the airplane it really became a pleasure to fly. I still have a little work to do on the landings. It's tending to come in a little nose up in attitude on me. I had another club member fly it and he said it flew beautifully. So it must be me. It's still in one piece and I had a lot of fun.

    Crowd Reaction
    I left the field in the dark and didn't get back home util 10:30pm because I had a group of people over by the Stearman. They asked me to start the engine for them because they never heard a radial engine before. After I fired her up and gave the throttle a few cracks they said "That's incredibe, its sounds like a Ferrari!".

    That engine is such a sweet heart. It did its job in fine fashion today. I think it’s starting to break in. I'm noticing more power and it revs up more freely. Even though I flipped her over on the first landing, I was able to redeem myself with the following 3-landings. There were lots of questions about the fabric covering and the simulated stitches. Everyone loved the rivets and said I was nuts once they found out how I did it.

    Sorry No Pictures, I was to busy flying. Some people did take pictures today. I'm guessing they will be up on my clubs website in a few days.

    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 6/5/2004 8:06:22 PM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 63

    Thrust angle for Robart R780 - 6/6/2004 1:33:11 AM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 525
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		FYI,
    Last night I added shims to the top of my motor mount to increase the amount of down thrust. Hallelujah!!! What an improvement!

    I added 2.5 degrees of additional down thrust to my engine for a total of 5.5 degrees by adding 3-washers behind each upper motor mount screw. What a difference!!! Instead of poor altitude modulation my Stearman gently drops altitude in proportion to throttle reduction. Instead of what looked like I was flaring the approach the whole way down my Stearman now comes down beautifully with excellent control.

    If you have a copy of the DVD I sent out you know what I am talking about. It was floating down to the runway almost in a stall. I dropped a wingtip right on the runway for a nice scrape. I know now