RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review  
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    • All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Giant Scale Aircraft - General >> RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review
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    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/7/2004 8:32:43 PM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 545
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Scale of Flair Stearman Kit
    Flair notes in the builders instructions and on their website that the scale of their aircraft is 1:4.3. It doesn't divide easily but the exact scale is:
    Upper wingspan of a full scale Stearman is 32' and 2" for a total of 386". The Flair Stearman wing span is 89"...So

    32' / 12 = 384"
    384+2=386" total wingspan

    Exact scale of the Flair Stearman is 386/89=4.3370786516853932584269662921348

    Why 1:4.33...Scale?
    Why do you think that Flair chose such an odd scale? Could it be that 7 more inches in fuselage length would mean that it couldn't fit in most vehicles? Was it because they were sizing it to fit a range of reasonably priced and available power plants? I will send an email to ask them and post their response here.

    Overwhelming Advantage to High Quality Mass Produced Kits
    In my opinion, there is one overwhelming advantage the Flair kit has over the many designer specific plans that are available. If you examine the Flair kit you will find that they went to great lengths to reduce weight. The formers and ribs have material removed with intricate patterns to save the maximum amount of weight possible while retaining strength. They also combined and layered thin sections of different materials to create light but strong structures.

    Typical Designers don't include that level of complexity in their kits because it would drive up the manufacturing costs. So what's a guy to do? Answer: Look for a really well designed kit that is mass produced which drives down the per unit cost. I give you the Flair Stearman!

    As an example I am attaching two photos. The one on the top is a wing from a well known Designer; the one on the bottom is a wing from my Flair Stearman. Which do you think is lighter? Which do you think would be more expensive to manufacture? Which would you rather have in your airplane? The last picture speaks for itself.

    Decision Point
    I'll take a Flair Stearman over anyone elses Stearman kit even though its a tad smaller than 1/4th scale.

    Attachments
    Click to see fullsize image.
    Click for fullsize         		Click to see fullsize image.
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    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 7/8/2004 1:08:21 AM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to BE_BXL)
           Post #: 101

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/9/2004 9:53:09 AM   
    BE_BXL


     

    Posts: 17
    Joined: 7/29/2003
    From: Meise, BELGIUM
    Status: offline     		Hey Tom,

    I was considering buying a 1/4 stearman kit. So I was looking at the Bob Dively's kit. As this one is only available in the states (I live in Belgium), it would rather be an expensive plane to have it send overhere. it would need a 4.2 to 6.4 gas motor. A second option is the 1/3 balsa usa kit. But 1/3 would be far too big for me.
    As I was gathering info on the internet, I stumbled onto your flair stearman.
    Indeed, what you say about the construction methods, I have the same experience with my flair Ka8 glider (which I am still building). Only with my Ka8 the wood quality is poor, and the plans of the wings were not on exact (left wing was 1'' taller than the right one). What about your kit? was everything OK?

    As you picked the navy colours sceme, with the white fuse (I like the colour sceme very much) : is this an original colour sceme? The 114 stearman is a replica. Do you have some info on this?

    I was wondering how you did the stitching? I have a pair of scissors that cut with dents, but mine are much lareger. What did you use to cut the cloth?

    I think you did an absolute fabulous job!!!

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 102

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/9/2004 11:27:05 AM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 545
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		The drawing of the center section was not to scale. This did not cause any problems because all the pieces fit together like a puzzle.

    The covering, finishing tape, and stitching method are all from F&M Products: http://www.stits.com/index.html

    Their fabric is called Stits. It is used on full scale airplanes and they also make a smaller weave for models. You use the same paints and process on both. They have a full scale covering manual available for $10 dollars that shows you how to cover a real Piper cub.

    To simulate stitching on a model you apply small blobs of glue on top of the fabric with a T-pin. When you apply Poly-Brush, Poly-Spray, and Poly-Tone over the wing it looks like stitching. It's a really slick method of simulating stitching.

    I am 90% sure that the color scheme is authentic. I have been trying to find original war period pictures of NAVY Stearman to validate it. I have found many references that list Glacier White as a fuselage color for NAVY Stearman. The colors I used are Orange Yellow, Glacier White, Insignia Red, and Insignia Blue. These colors are also listed on the Stits website as correct for NAVY Stearman.

    Photo #1 is of the finishing tape and stitching. The wing is sprayed with Poly-Brush at this point. F&M sells a good video that shows you how to do the whole wing from beginning to end. Photo #2 is of the wings sprayed with Poly-Spray. Its silver in color and UV protects the airplane and blocks the light from coming through the wing. Poly-Spray also sands really well. You have seen the color of my airplane and that's Poly-Tone which also sands really well. Photo #3 is of the full scale Stearman I copied the paint scheme from:

    Attachments
    Click to see fullsize image.
    Click for fullsize         		Click to see fullsize image.
    Click for fullsize         		Click to see fullsize image.
    Click for fullsize


    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 7/9/2004 6:40:42 AM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to BE_BXL)
           Post #: 103

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/12/2004 2:31:03 AM   
    argon


     

    Posts: 69
    Joined: 2/15/2003
    From: Jupiter, FL, USA
    Status: offline     		Tom: Haven't been communicating much lattly. I have to undergo surgery of a persistant tumor in my jaw for the third time and have been kind o bussy
    Regards Argon

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 104

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/12/2004 2:33:58 AM   
    argon


     

    Posts: 69
    Joined: 2/15/2003
    From: Jupiter, FL, USA
    Status: offline     		Tom: have almost finished the first lower wing and I'm thinking as you suggested to change the anchor brackets for the flying wires.
    Have not heard from Nelson on the wire. Did hear from Robart my engine will ship next week.

    Regards....ARGON

    (in reply to Kmot)
           Post #: 105

    R780 Radial Died During Landing - 7/12/2004 11:11:48 AM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 545
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Argon,
    My R780 quit during a landing Saturday causing significant internal damange.

    A few weeks ago my Robart R780 radial engine ate a valve. As it was explained to me my Larry Sperling of Robart "This happens some times and it happened to you". The base of the valve detached from the stem and trashed the #7 cylinder head, cylinder and piston. I sent it in for repair which they covered at no expense to me.

    I got it back Saturday and they replace all of cylinder #7 including the piston. They also replaced all of the connecting rods.

    I put in back in Saturday morning and went flying. I was on my 5th flight when the engine quit during my preparation for landing. I didn't have the altitude to turn back towards the field and had to land in the rough. My Stearman landed and rolled into a small ditch which flipped it over.

    Here is the damage:

    The damage is as follows:

    1. Fuselage firewall broke free of stringers around lower left landing gear mount. (Landing gear strut was pushed backwards)
    2. Left landing gear torque link sheared off.
    3. Left landing gear strut damaged.
    4. Left wheel torn and detached from rim.
    5. Cabane struts bent. Upper wing no longer parallel with lower wing.
    6. Tip of rudder folded over when the airplane flipped over.
    7. Flying wire attachment point yanked out of wing.
    8. Lower wing anchors yanked out of wing breaking inner wing ribs.

    I'm guessing that the engine quit at low RPM because it was still tight from the repair work. I should have run it on a test stand first. She can be repaired but I'm out of commission for a month or two.

    If I were you, I would run an entire case of fuel through the engine on a test stand to ensure that it’s well broken in before you fly it in your Stearman. I should have done this when I got it back from repair. I'd rather have spent $44 on a case of fuel than the time and trouble I have to go through now to fixing my Stearman.

    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 7/17/2004 5:17:07 PM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to argon)
           Post #: 106

    RE: R780 Radial Died During Landing - 7/12/2004 2:37:58 PM   
    P-51B



    Posts: 6173
    Joined: 10/11/2002
    From: An Iceburg in, ANTARCTICA
    Status: offline     		Ouch! Sorry to hear this .

    _____________________________

    In order to think "outside the box", one must first accept there IS a box.

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 107

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/12/2004 3:42:05 PM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 545
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Ouch! Take care of yourself. Get well soon!

    < Message edited by Cybertom -- 7/12/2004 10:42:49 AM >

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to argon)
           Post #: 108

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/12/2004 6:04:14 PM   
    BE_BXL


     

    Posts: 17
    Joined: 7/29/2003
    From: Meise, BELGIUM
    Status: offline     		Tom,

    that's really bad news. Hopefully you can repair the stearman. It is a beautifull ship.

    I just ordered mine from flair. I will start building it at the end of this season.
    I contacted the stits company. They even have a reseller in Belgium!!! This is a good start.

    I was wondering whether I could get a copy of your european DVD of the stearman?

    You mentioned the seidel engine. What's difference between the seidel and the robart engine?

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 109

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/12/2004 9:58:24 PM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 545
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		I can definitely fix it. It's not that bad, it's just frustrating and I'm going to loose a lot of good flying weather.

    As far as the difference between a Robart and a Seidel, I don't really know. Seidel has a good reputation and his engines are far more scale than OS or Saito. The Robart R780 is probably your ultimate scale radial engine.

    What Robart built into the R780 is no secret. I wish the Seidel site was up and running with technical information for people to read. From what I understand Seidel is a one man operation and he is probably really busy without the website. I don't know what technology he has in his engine. Robart, OS, and Saito all have an intake impeller of sorts in their engine. The Robart impeller can almost qualify as a blower. That makes a big difference in Horse Power and Robart claims 10.

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to BE_BXL)
           Post #: 110

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/13/2004 4:23:18 AM   
    argon


     

    Posts: 69
    Joined: 2/15/2003
    From: Jupiter, FL, USA
    Status: offline     		Tomk: Sorry to hear about your mishap nothing you cannot fix but it is a pain...

    (in reply to Cybertom)
           Post #: 111

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/13/2004 4:26:28 AM   
    argon


     

    Posts: 69
    Joined: 2/15/2003
    From: Jupiter, FL, USA
    Status: offline     		Tom: By the way I'm going in on the 27th of July and if all goes well will take about 6 weeks to recoup, you are still going to fly before I do, as for the engine I was planning on runing it quite a bit since I cannot fly it yet.

    Regards.......ARGON

    (in reply to argon)
           Post #: 112

    RE: Flair 1/4 Scale PT-17 Stearman Review - 7/13/2004 12:38:29 PM   
    Cybertom



    Posts: 545
    Joined: 12/2/2002
    From: Streetsboro, OH, USA
    Status: offline     		Can you fly year round down there? Is it to hot to stand out in the sun right now and fly? When do guys typically build down there vs. fly or doesn't it matter?

    November really starts getting cold and miserable up here. April usually has the first few really good days to fly. So for the 5-months of winter you are building or going to a frozen finger fun fly with ski's on your airplane. When it gets below 25 degrees the engines are really difficult to start.

    _____________________________

    Real airplanes have 2-wings and round engines!

    (in reply to argon)
           Post #: 113

    RE: R780 Radial Died During Landing - 7/14/2004 12:42:22 AM   
    Bill Yonescu


     

    Posts: 310
    Joined: 11/20/2002
    From: Palm Beach Gardens, FL, USA
    Status: offline     		Tom,

    Sorry to hear about the mishap. Good luck with the repair.

    Bill

    (in reply to Cybertom)