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Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 1:00:17 AM   
Mike James



Posts: 2431
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline 		After a kabillion revisions, and some really great aerodynamic advice from friends, here's the final version of my "Eliminator 2", which will fly in spring of 2004. Excuse the round twirly thing on the back, but turbines are out of my league at this time.

This model really is a bunch of "science experiments" for me. If it works as expected, I'll make some "short kits" (molded fuselage, canopy, hatch, and foam cores) available for summer of 2004. It's designed for .60 2-strokes, (or other engines using a 12" prop) and can rotate to at least 10 degrees on the ground without a prop strike. Assuming that drag is low ("intakes" are faked graphically, with small NACA inlets at the rear for engine cooling) I'd expect about 125 mph is level flight. It will accomodate standard retracts, and include flaps. My personal version will also incorporate leading edge flaps, coupled to the trailing edge flaps. The vertical fin "dorsal" extensions will let me find out if some degree of "flow control" from the chines is possible at model Reynolds numbers and high AOA. The F-16-ish ventrals should improve low speed stability, as well as helping to prevent over-rotation.

Basic specs are 69" length, 50 inch span, and 800 sq. inches of (projected) wing area. That gives a light wing loading if built at or under the expected maximum weight of 9 pounds. We'll see...

If you're interested in following along, (I won't spam you here) updates can be found at http://www.nextcraft.com/j47_sportjet01.html

Here are a few images.

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_____________________________

Mike James
RC Design and Building - www.nextcraft.com
       Post #: 1

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 1:31:48 AM   
seanreit



Posts: 6637
Joined: 4/17/2002
From: Cedar Park, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Mike, while it's clear you've got skills in computers and such, my experiance with glow powered airplanes up through gas powered airplanes and turbines tells me that the airplane you describe here will never hit 125 mph with a 40 knot tailwind. pusing 9 lbs with as much drag as I see on that airplane with a 60 size banger is going to be marginally fun to fly at best for guys that would expect high performance out of a glow powered banger jet. Take the Tomahawk for instance, I flew one with a Jett 50 and the drag on it alone kept that airplane from achieving over 80 to 90 (estimated) and it's 6 to 7 pounds wet (at least the one I flew).

Nothing personal, but I don't consider what you're showing there to be anything more than an attempt to get Turbine and Ducted Fan Jet pilots to look at your design and possibly a feeble attempt to get us to interested in your project.

Other than the shape of your airplane (which is an obvious knock off of full scale) what about it is supposed to be compelling to the masses (especially the masses in this forum)? And even so, wouldn't it fit better in another area of RCU related to prop driven airplanes?

Now, if you're gonna go through all the work of fiberglass fuse, foam core this and that and present it in this forum, hell, you might as well market it to us as a possible turbine airframe, but you better havfe the funding to go test fly the thing on your turbine, avionics, retracts etc and not ours.

Again, it's clear you have an incredible skill with computers and animation of design, but it's really not clear what you're trying to accomplish on this forum, where'm I wrong?

Sean

(in reply to Mike James)
       Post #: 2

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 1:47:45 AM   
Mike James



Posts: 2431
Joined: 1/19/2002
From: Anchorage, AK, USA
Status: offline 		I often share my ideas on RCU, and others often share their ideas with me.

Nothing more than that to it. If any moderator thinks my post is out of line, I have no problem with it being removed.


_____________________________

Mike James
RC Design and Building - www.nextcraft.com

(in reply to seanreit)
       Post #: 3

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 2:31:27 AM   
Kevin Greene



Posts: 2564
Joined: 3/28/2002
From: Jackson, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Sean,

Did someone feed you nails and tacks for breakfast??? Although I personally would not be interested in this project I can tell you this from following Mike's other projects....Mike is an EXCELLENT source of info concerning composites, mold and plug making!!! If and when Mike ever does decide to build and market a turbine jet kit I'm betting it will be very nice. Right now Mike is designing and building what appeals to him. If you can make some spare change in the process then more power to ya!!! Mike....I sure would like to see you put all of that energy of yours into a scale turbine kit. Make it good enough and people will beat a path to your door to buy it. (Then you won't have to worry about having enough money saved for a turbine!!!! ) Personally, I would like for SOMEONE to make an accurate scale fiberglass fuselage of the Ziroli F-9F Panther. It would need to be of AirWorld quality. (The Ziroli Panther is smaller than the AirWorld version) I have heard of SEVERAL guys that would buy one if it was nice and priced right. You could put my name on the list now!!!

Kevin

(in reply to seanreit)
       Post #: 4

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 2:45:25 AM   
jethead


 

Posts: 163
Joined: 12/8/2001
From: Chillicothe, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Not to sure about Seans post but if if you can design your own plane for the fun of it and it flies well thats pretty darn cool in my book. Good luck Mike.

(in reply to Kevin Greene)
       Post #: 5

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 3:09:15 AM   
Johng



Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/24/2002
From: Deland, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Sean - Exactly how much drag do you see on that airplane?? I don't see much.

_____________________________

John

(in reply to seanreit)
       Post #: 6

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 6:26:09 AM   
Razor-RCU



Posts: 5282
Joined: 3/21/2002
From: Ramona, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Never seen Sean post quite like that.... The Jets forum again showing its' "country-club" style mentality a little elitist (SP?)

If y'all allow those posts about those crappy Kyosho Jets, & Combat Models foamies then a custom designed prop-jet should be received with welcome arms!

Looks like an impressive prop-jet to me! You go Mike!

(in reply to Johng)
       Post #: 7

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 11:59:39 AM   
Strykaas



Posts: 4087
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Paris, FRANCE
Status: offline 		This is an unusual scratch built prop jet.

IMHO, this deserves respect.

If prop jets are irrelevant to the "jet" section, then let's create a "prop jets" section.

_____________________________

ProBro #2077
http://image2-0.rcuniverse.com/e1/forum/upfiles/57402/Nl29490.jpg

(in reply to Razor-RCU)
       Post #: 8

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 12:59:11 PM   
Vampire



Posts: 683
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Bath, PA, USA
Status: online 		Mike:

Having designed and kitted prop and Jet models for the past 25 of my 42 year modeling career I personally like folks who think outside the BOX.

It is evident that you are very gifted in the used of CAD solid modeling.

I do know this, one must pursue his pleasures where he finds them and let all else take it course and I would strongly encourage you to pursue this project to completion, verify your project goals for performance then build upon this experience as this is what makes this sport most exciting for me and keeps my interest level peaked after all these years. Every single model I have designed had something I had learned from a previous project or experience. Some good and some bad.

As for your projected performance of this model, with a .60 2cyc. I don't believe you will achieve the 125 mph on level flight but I do think you will be just below the century mark. Hell, all designers need a target and you have set yours, now go see if you can hit it !

Best of luck and most importantly, push on to completion. Even worse than loosing the project to a crash is the project that was never completed and the TOTAL experience lost.

There a many a scale Jet projects that need to be brought to existence and then to market and you may someday contribute to this worthy task. It surly beats putting out another regurgitation of an already existing design as nearly the same effort could have yielded an airframe on the -not done to date - list !

Mike: do your own thing as it appears that you have the makings of a budding designer.

Go for it.

Best Regards:

Kerry J. Sterner
KJ Scaled Designs
SIMJET of Penn.
scaledesigner@enter.net

(in reply to Strykaas)
       Post #: 9

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 1:00:40 PM   
CAM2


 

Posts: 92
Joined: 1/31/2003
From: brentwood, NY, USA
Status: offline 		I for one think you did a great job on this design and would be interested. One of my better flying models is an old EZ Pilot Kit of an F-16. It fly’s with using an OS .25FSR. I read a few bad reviews(after I was flying mine) mostly due to the fuel tank being located on the CG making for a 18” fuel draw, but for some reason mine ran/flew great. It did tend to load up a bit on reduced throttle settings. I think your would be a fine project. Good luck.

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(in reply to Strykaas)
       Post #: 10

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 7:32:01 PM   
Daren Savage


 

Posts: 286
Joined: 2/5/2002
From: Los Alamos, NM, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seanreit

Mike, while it's clear you've got skills in computers and such, my experiance with glow powered airplanes up through gas powered airplanes and turbines tells me that the airplane you describe here will never hit 125 mph with a 40 knot tailwind. pusing 9 lbs with as much drag as I see on that airplane with a 60 size banger is going to be marginally fun to fly at best for guys that would expect high performance out of a glow powered banger jet. Take the Tomahawk for instance, I flew one with a Jett 50 and the drag on it alone kept that airplane from achieving over 80 to 90 (estimated) and it's 6 to 7 pounds wet (at least the one I flew).

Nothing personal, but I don't consider what you're showing there to be anything more than an attempt to get Turbine and Ducted Fan Jet pilots to look at your design and possibly a feeble attempt to get us to interested in your project.

Other than the shape of your airplane (which is an obvious knock off of full scale) what about it is supposed to be compelling to the masses (especially the masses in this forum)? And even so, wouldn't it fit better in another area of RCU related to prop driven airplanes?

Now, if you're gonna go through all the work of fiberglass fuse, foam core this and that and present it in this forum, hell, you might as well market it to us as a possible turbine airframe, but you better havfe the funding to go test fly the thing on your turbine, avionics, retracts etc and not ours.

Again, it's clear you have an incredible skill with computers and animation of design, but it's really not clear what you're trying to accomplish on this forum, where'm I wrong?

Sean
Pretty cold there Sean. Would you be more interested if it looked like a 'Roo? I am not sure what you're post is trying to accomplish, but as I was taught, if you can't say anything nice, it's probably better to say nothing.

Daren

(in reply to seanreit)
       Post #: 11

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 7:42:55 PM   
A10FLYR



Posts: 1278
Joined: 12/6/2001
From: Littleton, CO,
Status: offline 		Holy cow Shaun, what gives? That sure doesn't seem like the same person who has been posting on RCU.

Hey Mike, hows the B200 project? When do we get one?

_____________________________

Dean,
A10FLYR

(in reply to Daren Savage)
       Post #: 12

RE: Prop jet project for 2004 - 12/12/2003 8:25:45 PM   
Steve Collins


 

Posts: 2116
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: St.Charles, MO, USA
Status: offline 		I am not so sure that this one won't be able to hit the 125mph mark if the right engine is used. I would love to see the performance with a Jett .76(same size and weight as the Jett .65) cranking a lot of prop. If the wings and tail feathers are kept pretty thin and assuming this plane will have full