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WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/15/2003 3:44:11 PM   
Raymond LeFlyr



Posts: 1840
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Just a little south of Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		The Feb MAN has a fine article on a .25-size D-VII for combat authored by David Johnson. The design looks straight forward and easy to build. The rules that are described in the article are reasonable and (thankfully) not complex. Alas, the D-VII is just not one of my favorite planes.

Back in September there was some activity on this forum about WWI combat as practiced by a couple of clubs in Maryland. I got all cranked up thinking I could build a couple of models and compete with them a few times in the Summer of '04. I ordered a kit and plans and props and an LA engine from a recommended commercial source - but finally cancelled the order when I could get no response about my order after trying several times over the course of two months. I decided to try SCC instead and gave up on my hopes for WWI scale combat in the coming season.

Now the MAN article pops up and I'm wondering if that means that it isn't dead after all. I'm wondering what has happened to the Maryland efforts? Are there still plans for WWI activity in that neck of the woods? Did any sources for plans, kits, ribs, etc. turn up?

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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/15/2003 5:29:38 PM   
Montague



Posts: 4653
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Laurel, MD,
Status: offline 		Are you sure it was in Maryland? I'm not saying it wasn't, just that I'm not aware of it. I am aware of some WW1 experiments being done up in New England and New York though. I haven't heard much recently though.

There's a really long thread on some of it on the RCCA site:
http://www.rccombat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6739


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Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560

(in reply to Raymond LeFlyr)
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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/15/2003 8:54:58 PM   
Raymond LeFlyr



Posts: 1840
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Just a little south of Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Kirk,

You are right - that was a long thread. But it still didn’t appear that there was a firm consensus about the model's rules established. This means (to me anyway) that if I want to fly WWI combat my best bet would be to build a D-VII from MAN plans and hope that I can find a contest within travel distance whose club’s rules will accommodate that design specific design. Hmm. I wonder what the odds are.

If I remember right the Maryland rules required all models to use the same wing ribs. (But I never did get a set of ribs or plans to build from. My fault, I didn’t try hard enough). And if I built a model to David Johnson’s specs I might not be able to fly it with the Maryland guys (who appear to be the closest active combat bunch to me here in NC).

So I’m back to square one. I guess I won’t worry about enjoying any WWI combat in 2004. Four letter word (drat). But thanks for pointing me towards the RCCA discussion and thanks to Dave Johnson for taking the initiative to put something “in the public domain” and thanks to any other guys and clubs who are trying to tie something together so that the less fortunate (read: me) might have a chance to enjoy WWI combat eventually.

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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/15/2003 10:30:22 PM   
Montague



Posts: 4653
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Laurel, MD,
Status: offline 		Well, part of my curiosity about all this was the whole "Maryland" thing. I'm in Maryland, at Freestate RC.

We held 4 RCCA-rules combat contests last year, and have 4 on the schedule for 2004. I'm not aware of any other combat in the state, though there could certainly be some guys trying stuff out with out making it public enough to find out about it here. Anyway, we don't have any WWI combat in my club, just the open class stuff.

If you want to fly A or B class open, you're more than welcome to come on up this way. Last year there were also a number of contests in VA, again, mostly Open classes.

Do you have any info on the guys doing the WWI stuff that you saw besides the magazine article? A contact email or something?

If you do find out about a combat contest using any rules in this area, please let me know about it. I run www.MidAtlanticCombat.com specfically to promote and get the word out on ANY type of RC combat in this region.


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Kirk Montague Adams
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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/15/2003 10:41:40 PM   
Montague



Posts: 4653
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Laurel, MD,
Status: offline 		Btw, is this the thread you were referring to?

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/WWI_Profile_Combat/m_1197507/tm.htm


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Kirk Montague Adams
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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/15/2003 11:28:09 PM   
Demon



Posts: 451
Joined: 4/10/2002
From: Ledyard, CT, USA
Status: offline 		Raymond,
The last I knew, the WWI combat that Dave Johnson wrote that article for consists of just 4 or 5 guys that only fly Dave's designs. They only fly at one club in Ellington, CT (NCRCC), and they don't fly WWI combat very often. Dave wrote the article in an attempt to stir some interest, but none of those guys have gone to combat contests in this area - thus local interest in WWI combat outside of NCRCC died.

There are also the issues with the design's materials (balsa ) and high parts-count to consider. While it is quite scale, and a very good flyer, it isn't very practical for combat. Their rules also do not take into account the rather high performance advantage of Norvell's bushed .25 engine (they had OS.25FPs in mind).

There was a pocket of profile-fuselaged WWI combat being flown somewhere down that way, but I don't recall exactly where (VA maybe?).

quote:

This means (to me anyway) that if I want to fly WWI combat my best bet would be to build a D-VII from MAN plans and hope that I can find a contest within travel distance whose club’s rules will accommodate that design specific design


Best bet is to find folks near you that are actually flying WWI combat and use the rules & designs they are using.

D

< Message edited by Demon -- 12/15/2003 11:36:59 PM >

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Darin Bellis
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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/16/2003 1:56:06 AM   
Raymond LeFlyr



Posts: 1840
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Just a little south of Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Guys,

I just did a search on "WWI combat" in the topic field here on good ole RCU -and one of the ten posts that came up was the one that started me off on this quest to begin with. Here's what came back so you can match up on it again. Apparently there are/were two Maryland clubs involved and they flew profile WWI (which would have been my preference) designs. One of the first entries says they had seven different designs. Check it out.

Topic: WWI scale combat plans
Forum: Combat
Author: Ace Bogie
Last post: 8/25/2003 3:17:15 PM

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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/17/2003 6:29:05 PM   
Raymond LeFlyr



Posts: 1840
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Just a little south of Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Kirk,

Yes, this is one of the RCU threads that got my interest in WWI combat cranked up. I also checked out your MidAtlantic website and didn't see the WWI clubs' activities listed. Looks like there is an opportunity for both of us.

I'm going to pursue the Maryland profile planes from Doug's Hobbies again. Maybe they have something pulled together for this Winter's building season.

Thanks,

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       Post #: 8

RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/19/2003 6:57:45 PM   
Montague



Posts: 4653
Joined: 4/19/2002
From: Laurel, MD,
Status: offline 		I send a PM to the guys in the thread I listed earlier and got a response. They haven't had their "big event" yet, but they do seem to do a bit of "pick up" combat, in other words, nothing really scheduled, just guys having fun. They are in southern MD, and I'm just finding out about it. This is aparently totally seperate from the guys up in New England who were doing something along the same lines.


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Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560

(in reply to Raymond LeFlyr)
       Post #: 9

RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/19/2003 9:04:21 PM   
Raymond LeFlyr



Posts: 1840
Joined: 2/10/2002
From: Just a little south of Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		Well Kirk, it sounded like a good idea and I'm glad someone is having fun with it. Maybe it will eventually catch on.

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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/21/2003 11:44:56 PM   
jchumley



Posts: 383
Joined: 12/4/2002
From: Dunkirk, MD, USA
Status: offline 		I am a member of the Charles County Radio Control Club in Southern MD. I joined the club because of the WWI profile combat dubbed "Dawn Patrol" that they and Patuxent Aeromodlers participate in. Rick Foch designed the original seven planes and has added a number of others including an eindecker and Gotha and Handley Page bombers. The purpose of the Dawn patrol as I understand it is to have an event that appeals to flyers that would be intimidated by cuthroat combat thus the name "Dawn Patrol" instead of "Combat". ALong with combat, the idea is to include other events for non-combatants such as attacking a drone (a zagi flying circuits with a long streamer); timed take off, fly a course and landing; I can't remember the others off the top of my head. The first actual combat meet was rained out late this season and will likely not be held until the weather warms up.

There have been quite a few planes built so far by both novice and experienced pilots and many of them can bee seen flying regularly at the CCRCC field. I usually fly on Sunday morning/afternoon and there are usually between three and 10 of the planes present. The ccrcc website, http://www.charlescountyrc.org has details including word documents that outline the rules and talk about building the planes. RCU member CCRC1 is the president and prime mover and shaker in the dawn patrol movement. I have built three planes thus far and am planning a fourth. My problem is that every time I start out to build a plane for combat, I get carried away and end up with something I don't want to risk in a sky full of hungry fighters. Next time for sure.

Because of the laid back nature of CCRCC, I don't see this becomming a regularly scheduled combat series here but the planes are easy to build and great flyers and the concept of a series that bridges the gap between Sunday fliers and firebreathing helmet heads definitely has merit. I hope others get involved and begin flying dawn Patrol at their clubs. It is really fun to see a bunch of these planes in the air!

BTW, I too read the MAN article and will probably build the DVII just for fun if not for combat.
flyers at CCRCC.

Here are the three planes I have built thus far. The Spad VII was built from Rick's plans. The Dh2 and the Albatros Taube Doppeldecker are my own designs but use the same airfoil (smaller on the lower wing of the Taube).

Jeff

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< Message edited by jwc-RCU -- 12/22/2003 2:18:37 PM >

(in reply to Raymond LeFlyr)
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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/25/2003 4:16:37 AM   
CCRC1



Posts: 1109
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Waldorf, MD, USA
Status: offline 		For all interested, the WW1 event is alive and well the the Charles County R/C club as well as the Patuxaunt Aeromodelers in Maryland. We had several of our events canceled because of bad weather last year and I definately plan on setting some new dates for the upcoming year. Sometime in mid January I will meet with the owner of Dougs Hobbies in Waldorf to have some more wing kits lazer cut. I also will have some more full size plans printed and available over the counter for anybody who needs them.
JWC was correct on how this event got started. I wanted an event that was simple, fun and that anybody with basic piloting skills could participate in. We have limited the engines to bushings only and the maximum displacement is .25. Airplanes that plan to compete may only deviate from the plans by 5%. If any of you were requesting info during the last month, I apologize as my computer lost the motherboard and I was without it for almost 5 weeks. I just got it back several days ago. If you want or need specific info just ask and I would be glad to help you with any questions you may have. Dave Fromme
President, Charles County Radio Control Club

< Message edited by CCRC1 -- 12/24/2003 11:17:14 PM >

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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/25/2003 4:22:58 AM   
CCRC1



Posts: 1109
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: Waldorf, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Here are a few of the Dawn Patrol Pilots from CCRCC last summer.

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(in reply to CCRC1)
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RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 12/25/2003 12:53:30 PM   
jchumley



Posts: 383
Joined: 12/4/2002
From: Dunkirk, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Welcome back Dave. Wondered where you had been. I hope to fly the DH2 and the Taube bipe this weekend weather permitting. When will you be at the field?

Here is my "documentation" for the Taube if anyone is interested. I was going to build a monoplane but I found this on the Internet and had to build it. The scale model was built by Sandy Morton out in Washington State and has competed in scale masters.

http://204.83.160.230/archive/images7/ALBx2taube.jpg
http://204.83.160.230/archive/b/images3/TaubeBiplane.jpg
http://www.mar-c.org/images/scale05.jpg
http://www.mar-c.org/images/scale06.jpg


Jeff

< Message edited by jwc-RCU -- 12/25/2003 12:48:28 PM >

(in reply to CCRC1)
       Post #: 14

RE: WWI Combat - Feb 2004 MAN - 1/4/2004 12:59:40 PM   
stefanP



Posts: 228
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: southington, CT, USA
Status: offline 		CC