quote:

ORIGINAL: mr_matt

a top "super waiver" is really the long term solution....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ad Clark III

Lee,
How about the guys that crash in the traffic pattern just simply trying to land or takeoff. The guys that use cheap servos that fail or arent powerful enough resulting in a crash. The guys that forget to charge either the radio or the ECU pack resulting in a crash. The guys that fly brand x ARF's that turn into confetti at any speed above 150 or two g's(crash). The guys who takeoff with reversed ailerons(crash). The guys that forget to refuel(crash). The guys that use Home depot quality adhesives(crash). The guys with actual radio failures(crash). The guys who just plain old dumb thumb it(crash).
And you think the answer is to slow down a guy with a Super Bandit who is under complete control at 220 with a manufacture's VNE of 250, and slow him down to 200 is the answer. I guess I dont understand your logic

Speed limiters may be part of the sollution, but they are not the sollution. Tier system gets my vote. my .02
Ad Clark III

quote:

. . . I think Dave Brown's concerns regarding our insurance situation are
valid. Our track record over the last few years has been poor, at best, and
last year we literally went to the eleventh hour before we even got a quote
on coverage for this year. This along with the hypothetical scenario of a
highly visible incident, resulting in government regulation of our sport, is
what I believe are driving Dave's comments.
Even though the turbine community has a good safety record I think
common sense would dictate that the risks associated with a turbine model
capable of traveling at 200 mph, carrying one or two gallons of jet A, are
greater than most other types of models. The risk of a fire is certainly
greater. Witness the incident at Floyd Bennett during the Big Apple Jet
Rally in 2002. What other type of model crash would result in that explosion
resulting in debris damaging models on a flight line almost a couple hundred
feet away? So, yes, I think there is a higher risk when flying turbine
models.
The question becomes how can we minimize that risk while still allowing
for the enjoyment of the discipline along with not stifling technological
advancements associated with turbines. I'd prefer to see us use pilot
education and ask the turbine community to help by policing themselves in
trying to reduce our exposure. I'm aware that some think the turbine guys
haven't done a good job in assuring compliance with the regulations. While
that may be true somewhere I think most turbine pilots do a good job
regarding safety concerns. Witness again the turbine group that flies at
Floyd Bennett.
I thought, as a package, the new proposals were good work. I had some
concerns, but as a package, I think they raised the safety bar. I voted in
favor of them. Of the three or so concerns that I believe Dave Brown has,
his biggest concern is the lack of requirement for some sort of speed
limiter. Since probably only a handful of turbine models are capable of
approaching 200 mph, and because we were told that there was only one
aftermarket speed limiter available (and it has reliability concerns), I was
reluctant to endorse the requirement for one in all turbine models. What
created much of the flack after the initial vote was that AMA was contacted
by more than one manufacturer who indicated that they could produce a
reliable unit. With this new information, Dave Brown asked that we vote to
hold off on implementing the new turbine regs until we can gather more
information on these manufacturer's claims. Since nobody in our district
objected (directly to me) to the requirement for a speed limiter on models
capable of reaching 200 mph, and all those in our district that have models
capable of reaching 200 mph are already using speed limiters, and would
continue to use them whether they were required or not, I voted in favor of
delaying implementation pending further info. Based on the current input
that I have received I would probably favor speed limiters on turbine models
that are capable of approaching the 200 mph speed limit (not ALL turbine
models) assuming a reliable, working unit is developed by somebody.
Hope I've answered most of your questions. If not, let me know and I'd
be glad to give you a call. It's hard sometimes to discussing things like
this in an email exchange. I know what you mean about the only times you
hear about AMA. That's exactly one of the reasons we created the District
Fly In here in our district. Let me know if you'd like me to give you a
call.
Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcronkhite

Part of the problem Lee is your info is incorrect. According to my info, ALL of the changes proposed were run past the AMA Safety Committee, the AMA's Insurance people, and the AMA legal dept and they all found no problems with the new rules, yet Dave has decided that all these learned people, in addition to the EC, were flat wrong, and HE is right.

The 200 mph issue is silly in my opinion. There are FAR more dangerous things than a 200 mph capable aircraft. We need to police ourselves and take away waivers from people who should not be flying jets. I have more problems with a guy who has the ability, but not the brain power. The guy who is a good pilot, who makes poor decisions (like flying anyway after have had radio problems during ground checks).

People who have demonstrated ability to competently control a jet aircraft should not be penalized for those who don't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: F106A

Hi,
As a follow up to my previous post, I called AMA and talked to Yolanda about buying a page in MA to reply to DB's editorial. She said she was going to check with Bob Hunt on what the procedure is, and after being on hold for a short time, said I should write a letter to the editor and the editor of MA would take care of it. Of course this did not answer my question, besides there's no way DB is going to allow any correspondence to be printed that is critical of him. I'll wait until after the holidays are over and try to talk to someone who can give me an answer.
Looking forward to WRAM show!
Regards,
Jon

quote:

ORIGINAL: kram51
Notice that in his response NO ONE from my district had contacted him to object to the what is going on. I think maybe the suggestion that you contact YOUR district VP will do far more than ranting here in RCU about all us "average Joe's" cramping your style.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Silver182

[snip]
Matt, speed limiters are the only way to go. Think about it the .9 aircraft are the only airplanes not required to have them now. After a couple of years the technology throughout the industry will completely catch up and speed will then not be a issue at the underwriters table or the flight line. We should utilize technology to make this easier on us, other AMA members, and Dave Brown.
Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099

quote:

So, let's drop the attitude and work on proposing some reasonable solutions for the AMA to consider. I am open to discussing this with anyone, please drop me a line. I'll also be sure to attend the (rumored) open discussion on turbine regulations and safety with DB and the EC at the upcoming AMA convention in January.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extra Nut

quote:

So, let's drop the attitude and work on proposing some reasonable solutions for the AMA to consider. I am open to discussing this with anyone, please drop me a line. I'll also be sure to attend the (rumored) open discussion on turbine regulations and safety with DB and the EC at the upcoming AMA convention in January.

AMEN!!!

Guys, you sure sound elitest to me even though most of you claim not to be. Take note of my earlier post! How many of you are involved with your club? Are you an officer? Do you work with other non jet guys? Get your club members behind you. Look me up at www.wdarc.org You'll see we like jets and Giant Scale. Many were leary of both prior to my taking office 3 years ago.

We need to all work together and quit whining like babies! If it is a speed limiter so what? I have a Euro Fighter with a P120 and we all know that won't do 200mph even off a cliff. If it is required, I'll add it to the plane. I think we need to pick our battles so please pull your heads out!

Another post mentioned risk managment. I am going to call Dave Brown personally and ask him if he has a detailed safety checklist that most of us live by with Turbines. Perhaps an Underwriter will be more relaxed if they know the precautions we all take.

Glenn Hoffman
President
Woodland / Davis Aeromodelers, Inc