RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister  
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RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 5/9/2006 10:53:19 PM   
rvficklen


 

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/20/2003
From: McDonough, GA, USA
Status: offline 		I'm in the process of building the 1/4 scale GA Bucker and like many of you, I've found some "problems" with the plans. My biggest hurdle now is determining the proper dihedral for the upper and lower wings. Can anyone help with this?

Thanks in advance,

Randy

(in reply to Big_Bird)
       Post #: 201

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 5/10/2006 2:51:46 AM   
CharlieK


 

Posts: 63
Joined: 1/12/2003
From: Laramie, WY, USA
Status: offline 		The scale dihedral angle if 3.5 degrees on the lower wing and 1.5 degrees on the upper wing. You can set it up by measuring the angle and calculating the actual distance the wingtips are moved up. I usually lay it out full scale and measure it.
Charliek

(in reply to rvficklen)
       Post #: 202

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 5/10/2006 11:14:04 PM   
rvficklen


 

Posts: 2
Joined: 11/20/2003
From: McDonough, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Charliek,

Thanks for the information and the quick response!! I'll get out my protractor and set-up the W7 ribs. Have you built, or are you building this plane?

Thanks again,

Randy

(in reply to CharlieK)
       Post #: 203

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 5/10/2006 11:40:25 PM   
Big_Bird



Posts: 3237
Joined: 12/18/2001
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Randy, as the starter of this thread, let me be one of the first, after CharlieK, to welcome you. You have selected one mighty fine airplane to model. The flight characteristics are really good. I think there have been several 1/4 scale versions built.

I'll be flying mine Saturday at the Ft. Worth Thunderbirds Warbird Flyin.

Take care.

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Ken
WACO Brotherhood #70

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       Post #: 204

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 5/10/2006 11:48:34 PM   
CharlieK


 

Posts: 63
Joined: 1/12/2003
From: Laramie, WY, USA
Status: offline 		Kens right Randy, Welcome to the thread. I am building a 1/3 scale version and hope to get started on the actual assembly in about 2 weeks. Right now am making parts and getting a plan of action worked out.
Charlie

(in reply to Big_Bird)
       Post #: 205

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 7/19/2006 9:21:05 PM   
CharlieK


 

Posts: 63
Joined: 1/12/2003
From: Laramie, WY, USA
Status: offline 		Hi guys,
I have a question or two. The first is I finally looked at the gear and how are you bending 1/4 in. music wire? The biggest I have done in the past is not even close to that big. Also Ken did you use the fuselage bulkheads fron the Arizona kit? I measured mine and found that only about two of them actually are the correct size. I have finally started the fuselage assembly and have both sides partially completed. Hopefully my full scale customers will run well for a while so I can speed up the construction process, its been kind of slow so far.
Charliek

(in reply to CharlieK)
       Post #: 206

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 7/20/2006 12:19:30 AM   
Big_Bird



Posts: 3237
Joined: 12/18/2001
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CharlieK

Hi guys,
I have a question or two. The first is I finally looked at the gear and how are you bending 1/4 in. music wire? The biggest I have done in the past is not even close to that big. Also Ken did you use the fuselage bulkheads fron the Arizona kit? I measured mine and found that only about two of them actually are the correct size. I have finally started the fuselage assembly and have both sides partially completed. Hopefully my full scale customers will run well for a while so I can speed up the construction process, its been kind of slow so far.
Charliek

Charlie, to bend the landing gear I use a medium size Craftsman bench mounted vise and a length of 1/2 inch steel tubing that I put over the 1/4" wire. It would be easy to bend the wire by heating it with a propane torch but then you would have to harden it again. That can be a little tricky.

I must have used the bulkheads (formers) from the Arizona kit because I don't remember a problem with them. How are they not correct? Can you sand them down or add a little wood to correct them?

Now I'm curious, what kind of full scale customers?

It will be a while before you need this information but while it is still fresh on my mind I thought I would tell you what I did. On the 4th of July I was flying the Jungie and as usual when flying down the runway and doing a steep pull up, the plane would yaw to the left as it climbed. Normally I simply shove in a little right rudder. I got to thinking about mixing this in with throttle. Now the engine has about 2 degrees of right thrust built in but this was not correcting the problem. I use a Futaba 8UAF transmitter. At high throttle I mixed in -12% right rudder and put the on/off function on the rudder hi/low rate switch. I don't use low rate for the rudder so the switch is not used for hi/low rate. With the mixing turned on the pull ups were arrow straight and the full throttle horizontal flight was just fine also. As I would throttle back the plane would still maintain straight flight. When I would go to high throttle near the end of the takeoff roll the plane would still go very straight. I keep making high speed (high speed is debatable with a Jungie) runs with steep pull ups. I kept alternating with the mixing out then back in, etc. I convinced myself that the mixing was such a good thing that I left it in all the time and set it so that it can't be accidentally switched out.

< Message edited by Big_Bird -- 7/20/2006 12:24:56 AM >

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Ken
WACO Brotherhood #70

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       Post #: 207

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 7/21/2006 2:12:03 AM   
CharlieK


 

Posts: 63
Joined: 1/12/2003
From: Laramie, WY, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Ken,
The tubing should work and I have some somewhere. I don't have the equipment to retemper the wire any more so that should solve the problem. I have decided to make the bulkheads from balsa to match the original plans as they should be lighter that way and are not really structure. After the extra project I have started checking everything I put together to make sure it all matches, there were a few ? problems with that kit. The plywood bulkheads are mostly capable of being modified but I don/t want the weight. They will make good patterns anyway if positioned correctly. As recieved they are varying amounts of to wide or to short or both which probably would not be noticeable in the finished airplane but as an aircraft mechanic I tend to get picky. I can appreciate your comment on the yaw with the big engine. The airplane is very short coupled which is one of the reasons it is a good aerobatic airplane. I had a Pica version for a while and decided the .60 in it was to small so I put a .90 in it. I wasn't nearly as good at flying as I am now and we had a really wild trip around the patch with about 50% right rudder travel in it, leaned a lot that day. In answer to your question at the present time I have 2 c-172's, a turbo C210 and an RV3 that I maintain, plus emergency repairs on whatever shows up at the airport. I have worked on everything froms Pitts to Falcon 900's at one time or another but no Jungies unfortunately. Working for myself part time funds my RC habit and in 4 years I can get the FAA 50 year award for full scale work. Airplanes are addictive and I find it hard to get through the day if I don't work on or fly something - to old to change now so we just enjoy it.
Charliek

(in reply to Big_Bird)
       Post #: 208

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 7/21/2006 4:23:35 AM   
Big_Bird



Posts: 3237
Joined: 12/18/2001
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Charlie, you have really had an interesting career. Although I always had a great interest in aircraft I went a different direction. Electronics and computer programming. I retired from Texas Utilities after 33 years. I was a Process Control Specialist in power production.

I sure am glad that you are working on the Jungie. I've been flying giant scale since 1982 and I have never had a plane that I liked better than the Jungmeister.

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Ken
WACO Brotherhood #70

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       Post #: 209

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 7/21/2006 11:44:04 PM   
CharlieK


 

Posts: 63
Joined: 1/12/2003
From: Laramie, WY, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Ken
If the giant Jungie flies as well as the Pica version did I will love it. I am into full scale classic aerobatics like the old Lockheed Trophy from the 50's. The Pica version flew great up here, even in the summer when the density altitude (which is what the airplane and engine see) is 11000 ft or so. I actually started out in aeronautical engineering and then electronics in the air force, got into the mechanic thing because I wanted to build a homebuilt and liked it so much I stuck with it. My second love is electronics and computers but they have progressed considerably since the time when I was working with them. The engineering and electronic skills have spiced up my A&P career considerably and made it much more interesting. The Jungie is progressing, mama gets cut off for a little while every day now so I can put some more parts on it. Another question - have you ever sorted out who has the best scale drawings of the airplane? I hear the Cox drawings are off, and the Air Trails drawings seem to have the wrong fuselage shape in the turtle deck. One of the problems is that airplanes are individuals and there are variation in each one due to all of them being built basically by hand. They are not true production line items. I know from my reference material that there are at least 2 cowl variations and the vents on the sides of the fuselage are different but have not been able to cross reference all of this because I don't have an airplane to work with ( unless I win the lottery )
Charliek

(in reply to Big_Bird)
       Post #: 210

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 7/22/2006 4:38:13 AM   
Big_Bird



Posts: 3237
Joined: 12/18/2001
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Charlie, look for my e-mail.

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Ken
WACO Brotherhood #70

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       Post #: 211

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 8/5/2006 2:52:02 AM   
SoCalSal


 

Posts: 942
Joined: 3/5/2005
From: spring valley , CA, USA
Status: offline 		The plane in the photos is at Gillispe field in El Cajon Ca. I have seen it many times, It flys over my home from time to time. If you look at the missel in the first photo it is an Atlas Booster from General Dynamics in San Diego. It is mounted out in front of the San Diego Aerospace Museum's annex at Gillespie Field.

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Let''s be open minded.... But not so open that your brain falls out

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       Post #: 212

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 8/5/2006 5:09:59 AM   
Big_Bird



Posts: 3237
Joined: 12/18/2001
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline 		The Jungie belongs to John Hickman Jr. Here are a couple of photos after the latest restoration. I sure envy you being so close to it.

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Ken
WACO Brotherhood #70

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       Post #: 213

RE: Gary Allen 33% Bücker Jungmeister - 8/5/2006 12:24:23 PM