RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool !

RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool !
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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/3/2004 1:47 AM

rflach5

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Here is a link to the file I created from GulfStream1's posts.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rflach5/SubmarineMods.doc

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/3/2004 1:40 PM

sirnumskull

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petn7:

Thanks for the comment!

Short clip at pond. . . .

http://www.2and2.net/Priv/pakimpond.MOV

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/3/2004 3:59 PM

petn7

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here's my pic...sorry it's very bad, but it was taken with a webcam; you can still see the mods i made

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/3/2004 4:00 PM

petn7

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oh, and that battery pack doesn't really go there. i just placed the battery there so you could see what battery i chose to use.

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/5/2004 6:59 AM

sirnumskull

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rcsoar4fun

I have read the mods and I am have a couple of questions. Concerning the turning, has anyone tried adding a regular rudder in addition (or perhaps in replacement) to the turn motor?

Kristopher

rcsoar4fun:

Just a little more tweaking and maybe a torsion or extension spring and I'll have a detailed explanation of this rudder modification!

check out this QuickTime Movie . . .

http://www.2and2.net/Priv/Rudder_Mod.MOV

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< Message edited by sirnumskull -- 6/5/2004 2:43:38 AM >

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/5/2004 4:35 PM

petn7

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that's pretty sick! how are you moving the rudder? one thing i've been thinking about is using a micro servo to control the rudder. since all motors have 3 wires going to them, are those the same 3 wires that go to a servo? +, -, and signal? if so, you could take out the yaw motors, and stick a micro servo in there. i even have 2 micro servos waterproofed and ready to go from last summer's failed project...

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 2:03 AM

sirnumskull

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petn7:

Sick because you don't understand how it can work or Sick because it doesn't look cool?
Believe me it works and there are modifications that look awful but work quite well.
With this mod you don't need to buy a servo because these subs use only motor control and are not capable of servo control without
buying some expensive equipment.
As you may or may not know - servos have 3 leads- two for power and one for a pulsed control signal which drives the servo into left -
mid -and right positions. All we have to work with here is on or off control of either forward or reverse direction as determined by the
motor control circuit - there is no positioning pulse - only a reversal of polarity at the motor.
Sooo - if you want to try to add rudder control you could either use linear solenoids to position the rudder or you can use the existing
motor and make it perform like a positioning solenoid - and how convenient that the motor has 2(two) - double bladed props and that
they are not only in line with one another but have opposite rotation configurations (they curve in opposite directions) so one is pushing
while the other is pulling. And on top of it all they happen to be perpendicular to the rudder neutral position!
Are you following me so far?

Anyway, an important point about these type of motor control circuits is that they can be stalled dead and neither the circuit nor the
motor will be harmed. (aka; sort of like energizing a solenoid - provided it has a core( i.e.: a load)
Now, if you treat the prop blades like servo horns and drill a very small hole in the top of one and the bottom of the other while they are
at 12 o'clock then you have just created opposite stall positions for left and right - center(neutral) will have to be spring loaded to return
to that position when the control buttons are released - how simple - alright?

The idea of adding a rudder can be appreciated by anyone who has tried the turning controls when moving the sub in forward or
reverse - it's just not happening!

NOTE: This mod is not for the faint of heart - it is cheaply done but requires patient attention to details - like clearances and application of homemade light weight linkage and tie rods as well as the rudder itself - but it works - and very well I might add!
Remember you will need to realign and add Styrofoam and/or ballast as needed - after all mods are completed.
Also, you will not have the use of the right and left thrusters when you do this modification - something quite useful when stopped either
on the surface or under the water. (oh well - its a compromise.)

< Message edited by sirnumskull -- 6/6/2004 7:18:31 AM >

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 2:06 AM

sirnumskull

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Some Pictures of the Rudder Modification . . . .

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< Message edited by sirnumskull -- 6/5/2004 10:02:47 PM >

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 3:03 AM

gulfstreamI

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirnumskull

Some Pictures of the Rudder Modification . . . .

Sirnumskull,

Arrrrrgggg!!! Pretty creative my young lad!
It is a bit crude, but who cares? If it works fine...that's another challenge overcome in the quest for a better inexpensive submarine.

Cool movie pics you made there.That's one hell of a dedicated sub skipper.

The design engineers from Motorworks should get a look at this! Hey they should hire you to work for them... LOL

As for those worried that the thruster props getting pulled off the drive shaft with this mod, I wouldn't worry about that. Those shafts have tiny splines, very much like those splined drive shafts on r/c trucks.

GulfstreamI

< Message edited by gulfstreamI -- 6/6/2004 3:09:18 AM >

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 3:11 AM

petn7

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hahaha, i meant "sick" as in it's cool. i guess typed words can never convey all the meanings spoken words can. anyhoo, that's pretty creative. i was always wondering why in the world those motors needed 3 wires...very ingenious, using 3 wires to allow reverse capability.

wait, i have a warning for this mod. when i was making other changes to my sub, it somehow turned out that the yaw motors (which are the motors used to control the rudder) kept on hitting the top of the hull. So basically the screws were locked. of course, i never burned out the motor or anything, however i did manage to STRIP the bloody pinion gear attached to the horizontal shaft that the blades are attached to. how did i fix this problem? well, i had to shave down on the screw blades to make them have a smaller radius and also sanded away at the inside of the top of the hull. and i managed to modify an old plastic pinion from my micro helicopter flying days. so i say to all of you guys who want to try this mod - there IS A RISK of grinding down one or more gears so that the motors turn, but the shaft to turn the screws do not.

< Message edited by petn7 -- 6/6/2004 5:56:02 AM >

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 3:27 AM

gulfstreamI

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quote:

ORIGINAL: petn7

here's my pic...sorry it's very bad, but it was taken with a webcam; you can still see the mods i made

pent7,

A well executed mod! Better than my crude battery tray I might add. That very long antenna resembles those German U-boat snorkels from World war II. LOL

By the way, have you tried taking your sub down past 8 feet in a swimming pool?
I've tried that today. Try sticking your sub's transmitter (antenna only) into the pool water. It's gonna go all the way down!
I can smell another mod for this...hmmmmmm.

GulfstreamI

< Message edited by gulfstreamI -- 6/6/2004 3:31:33 AM >

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 3:35 AM

petn7

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nope, but i hope to take down to 9 feet sometime this summer. a friend of mine has some neighbors that let me use their pool with my "underwater experiments."

their deep end is 9 feet, so i'm sure to test it there. i expect it to work since i have the antenna extended so high and i did your mod of using 8 AA batteries for the tx. i assume this increases tx range with this increased voltage and amps?

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 3:39 AM

sirnumskull

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gulfstreamI:

Thanks for the comments . . . the mod is ugly! . . . but when your 50ft. or more out in a pond it sure will come in handy for a surface circling run and just plain old turning in general.

More Pics of the Rudder Mod . . .

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 3:39 AM

gulfstreamI

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quote:

ORIGINAL: petn7

wait, i have a warning for this mod. when i was making other changes to my sub, it somehow turned out that the yaw motors (which are the motors used to control the rudder) kept on hitting the top of the hull. So basically the screws were locked. of course, i never burned out the motor or anything, however i did manage to STRIP the bloody pinion gear attached to the horizontal shaft that the blades are attached to. how did i fix this problem? well, i had to shave down on the screw blades to make them have a smaller radius and also sanded away at the inside of the top of the hull. and i managed to modify an old plastic pinion from my micro helicopter flying days. so i say to all of you guys who want to try this mod - there IS A RISK of grinding down one or more gears so that the motors turn, but the shaft to turn the screws do not.

pent7,

I encountered this same problem a few months ago, my remedy was to PUSH the thruster props further IN their drive shaft. And that was it, problem solved!

GulfstreamI

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 3:44 AM

petn7

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but when i pushed my props further in, the hit the plastic protrusion from the gearbox that the screws go into...oh well, i fixed it now except for the fact that now the thrust from the yaw screws/motors are reversed. no biggie, i swear i'm dyslexic anyways...

< Message edited by petn7 -- 6/6/2004 3:47:37 AM >

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 3:54 AM

gulfstreamI

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quote:

ORIGINAL: petn7

nope, but i hope to take down to 9 feet sometime this summer. a friend of mine has some neighbors that let me use their pool with my "underwater experiments." their deep end is 9 feet, so i'm sure to test it there. i expect it to work since i have the antenna extended so high and i did your mod of using 8 AA batteries for the tx. i assume this increases tx range with this increased voltage and amps?

pent7,

Woah! Looks like were gonna break a few records here. LOL

Taking your sub down to 9 feet is ... way past it's recommended diving depth. I've read in one of those sub websites of a claim of a Wally sub dive down 10 feet.
I'm really looking forward to someone here posting underwater pics of this sub. What I mean by this is taking pictures of the sub with the camera man IN the water with the sub! That is gonna be soooooo cooool!

And, Yes.. that extra voltage on your transmitter of 3 volts WILL increase the range of your sub AND the runtime.

GulfstreamI

< Message edited by gulfstreamI -- 6/6/2004 3:58:59 AM >

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/6/2004 11:36 AM

sirnumskull

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gulfstreamI

quote:

ORIGINAL: petn7

nope, but i hope to take down to 9 feet sometime this summer. a friend of mine has some neighbors that let me use their pool with my "underwater experiments." their deep end is 9 feet, so i'm sure to test it there. i expect it to work since i have the antenna extended so high and i did your mod of using 8 AA batteries for the tx. i assume this increases tx range with this increased voltage and amps?

pent7,

Woah! Looks like were gonna break a few records here. LOL Taking your sub down to 9 feet is ... way past it's recommended diving depth. I've read in one of those sub websites of a claim of a Wally sub dive down 10 feet.
I'm really looking forward to someone here posting underwater pics of this sub. What I mean by this is taking pictures of the sub with the camera man IN the water with the sub! That is gonna be soooooo cooool!

And, Yes.. that extra voltage on your transmitter of 3 volts WILL increase the range of your sub AND the runtime.

GulfstreamI

gulfstreamI, petn7 :

If you want to go for depth records better secure the battery WTC on this sub, at 10 feet you will have an additional ~5PSI of pressure on the submarine - here's what I did. . . .

CAREFULLY!, CAREFULLY! (Remember this is just ABS plastic) Using a finecut square file put a groove length wise from screwhole to screwhole and about 5/16" wide by ~1/64th in. deep. Again be very-very Careful and work slowly - most of all - be as accurate as possible because you only want to remove approximately (0.015") of material - evenly milled out to the same depth!
Now - cut a piece of 1/16th inch acrylic plastic to closely fit the groove you have created. (mine is approximately 5/16th wide)
Using CA glue the piece in place and preferably clamp it while it dries. Then drill the two holes out from the inside.
Then slightly (read as Carefully!) countersink the screwholes and install.
You may have to add more Styrofoam to compensate for additional weight of this mod.

This not only reinforces the entire cover but will redistribute the pressure evenly down on the silicone seal without flexing back and allowing seepage of water through the seal - which is a good way to destroy(shorts them out) expensive rechargeable batteries and if the leak is severe enough and you happen to be out in a pond where you cannot retrieve it easily - you can drown your sub! ( say, goodby sub!)

Take your time - go slowly or don't even attempt this if you feel that you cannot maintain accuracy in the cutting process.

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< Message edited by sirnumskull -- 6/9/2004 8:51:24 AM >

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/9/2004 3:26 AM

magnumball

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Great mod for the walmart sub. do you just press right or left with single tap or do you have to keep the button pressed. This is concerning the rudder mod. Also have made night moves in my pool with led light.

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/9/2004 10:26 AM

sirnumskull

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magnumball:

Thanks . . .

Its neat that you perceived of the way the rudder would respond . . .

Both ways are possible, a push and release - returning to midpoint if you have a return spring -
without a return spring the rudder will be at the whim of the water flowing past it and may or
may not return to midpoint, something I was hoping it would do to avoid having to add a return spring.

The desired operation would be holding down the pushbutton sending the rudder to the left
or right and a return spring to bring it back to the midpoint when released.

Honestly, I have not added a return spring and for now I use quick taps left and right to drive
the rudder to midpoint with the force of the water moving against it - it ain't perfect.
If I add a return spring it will be either a torsion spring at the rudder itself or an extension spring
off of the props - also this must be a light spring just enough to allow the return function.
I may try adding a return spring in the near future and will post it when I do.
Also, I want to experiment with different surface area rudders to provide even faster response.

Thats cool running the sub at night with an LED light, I like that idea!

In another post there is a mention of using an LED and a receiver cell combo, emitting light at a
frequency that would travel a reasonable distance thru the water and use it as a "torpedo" against
another sub equipped with similar devices that would disconnect the power when a "hit" is scored.
That would be a fun pool toy!

< Message edited by sirnumskull -- 6/9/2004 8:01:05 AM >

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/9/2004 6:07 PM

petn7

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hahaha, underwater combat! way too cool! maybe it should take 2 shots to sink a sub? the first shot is kinda like saying to the other sub "my torpedoes doors are open, tubes are flooded, firing solution has been achieved, and torpedoes are in the water 1000 yards and closing fast" then the sub being shot at has like 45 seconds to avoid being hit a second time. if he's hit again, he's sunk. if he dodges all the hits, it's over. lol would IR work underwater?

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/9/2004 8:45 PM

sirnumskull

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petn7:

I'm not sure how far infrared light will travel but my research
says that blue and green light are transmitted to the greatest depths.

I think that is a great idea to give a "zeroed-in on you notice" and then allow a
time interval for a heads-up battle stations all out attack - so cool!

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/9/2004 9:59 PM

petn7

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well, there's that little hole right on the front of the sub where one could put a LED, then maybe you could get like 3 or 4 photo cells to put on different places on the sub's hull to receive that LED's light. only problem is we're gonna need a bigger hull. they made one of these things for r/c planes recently. maybe that could be modified for underwater use.

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/10/2004 2:06 AM

magnumball

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HOW DO I POST PICTURES

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/10/2004 2:35 AM

magnumball

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This is my sub with silicon rave ring led light. it is waterproof. the silicon ring stretches over the top of the submarine.

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RE: Walmart Submarine = Cool ! - 6/10/2004 2:50 AM

magnumball

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When I first started to mod the sub the prop extension was unstable. I hot glued the opening of the tail with a small metal tube for the shaft and propeller to go thru. This made the shaft and prop more stable and increased speed.

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