RE: Hangar 9 F4U Corsair  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
    Search This Thread  
 
Printable Version

All Forums >> Electric Aircraft Universe >> Glow to Electric Conversions >> RE: Hangar 9 F4U Corsair
Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Hangar 9 F4U Corsair - 3/4/2004 12:36 PM   
gdodson


 

Posts: 3
Score: 100
Joined: 2/17/2004
Last Login: 6/30/2004
From: waxahachie, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Shipping,,,ive had mine for a month

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 101

RE: Hangar 9 F4U Corsair - 3/4/2004 2:00 PM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		The Corsair started down the runway with authority and the heavy cross wind required full right rudder to keep it on track.

The tail had already lifted when it passed me so my buddy, Lynn, pointed it slightly into the wind for liftoff.

After the Corsair sped away into the sky, we silently watched it in awe.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to gdodson)
       Post #: 102

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/5/2004 1:18 AM   
Kelvin


 

Posts: 30
Score: 100
Joined: 6/5/2002
Last Login: 7/4/2009
From: Frisco, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Is that a county road you are flying off? I noticed in your Razor review it looked like you're flying from a public highway. Hope you don't have to land at the same time a semi is coming down the highway. Looking forward to seeing a video.

Heres a video of a another H9 Corsair flown at MWE by Doug Cronkhite.

[URL=http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/mirrors/corsair_zero.mpg]H9 Corsair and WM Zero[/URL]

Kelvin

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 103

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/5/2004 2:27 PM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Kelvin,

You have a good eye. When the flying field is covered with snow, we make do. This falls under the catagory, "Don't do this at home, we're....". Well, you can fill in the blank.

Don't worry though, no semi trucks to worry about, just lack of AMA coverage.

Your video is over 30meg in size which is way too big for most people to see. If possible, keep it below 10meg.

Regards.

_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Kelvin)
       Post #: 104

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/5/2004 2:38 PM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Tell me this plane isn't real?

Ok, a pilot would help.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize 		Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 105

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/5/2004 6:29 PM   
mikeatk@cox.net


 

Posts: 22
Score: 100
Joined: 6/16/2002
Last Login: 10/15/2009
From: Chandler, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Wow Greg!

I love that middle shot. It does look like a real aircraft. Let's just say the pilot is looking out the left side in that picture.

Thanks

Mike Atkinson

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 106

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/6/2004 8:53 PM   
bassmanh



Posts: 685
Score: 105
Joined: 7/29/2002
Last Login: 11/8/2009
From: fond du lac, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Gregg,

when im using my new AF watt meter does it make a difference if the pack is nicad or nimh ? as i am getting very differnt readings compaired to what is on either hobby lobby`s site or model motors site


using the same props and # of cells such as 12 cells and a 14X10 prop on my 4120/14 AXI im getting about 28.6 amps and roughly 340 watts.


on model motors site there numbers are 49 amps and 581 watts in is there that much difference between nicad and nimh cells ? thanks.


bassman

_____________________________

it landed in one piece ? what did i do wrong ?planes= H9 B-25, H9 Hellcat, Arrow, sky vista, WM spitfire, slowpoke

Hide Signatures

(in reply to mikeatk@cox.net)
       Post #: 107

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/7/2004 12:13 AM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Mitch,

Your AF Whattmeter is reading the correct value for your setup. Using either NiCd, Lithium, or NiMH cells on the AF Whattmeter makes no difference.

Notice that your current level and wattage is lower than the posted values at Model Motors. This is likely due to several reasons. In part, your cells are not broken in yet. They need a few cycles to gain full strength. I forget which cell you are using but NiMH cells are especially in need of a break-in period.

Model Motors is likely using a DC bench supply (a perfect supply) that does not drop voltage under load. To compensate for this drop, you can use more cells. On my 4120/14 setups, I used 14 and 16 cells to bring up the current and power level. On one setup, I then switched to Lithium cells and the voltage drop was much less than my 14-cell 2600mAh NiMH pack because the Lithium pack could produce 60amps continuous. The result was even more power!

Basically, you need to adjust your prop size and/or cell count combination to gain the maximum allowable current for your motor. This is assuming that the setup needs it and will benefit. In your case, I would do it because you have a .40-size Corsair.

Recall that in flight, you generally unload about 10% so if you design for maximum motor performance in a static ground test, you'll have a good 10% reduction when airborn.

Regards.

< Message edited by Greg Covey -- 3/7/2004 12:19:18 AM >

_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to bassmanh)
       Post #: 108

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/7/2004 7:06 PM   
Kelvin


 

Posts: 30
Score: 100
Joined: 6/5/2002
Last Login: 7/4/2009
From: Frisco, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greg Covey

Kelvin,


Your video is over 30meg in size which is way too big for most people to see. If possible, keep it below 10meg.

Regards.


Yes. It was someone elses video who attended MWE.

Great looking shots in the air. Can you add landing gear doors? That would make these airborne shots just that more perfect.

Kelvin

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 109

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/8/2004 2:34 PM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Kelvin,

Gear doors would look great! Another local scale enthusiast said that the pictures look great except for the servos and antenna wires showing. Oh well, my glasses must have more rose color in them than most.

I found a great little product called the Ernst Ultra Stand. For only $11., I was able to seat my Corsair inverted and make some current measurements.

I measured 40amps (710w) with my AF Whattmeter using 18-cells of CP2400. Since this is not pushing the motor at all, it can be used as is or another 2-4 cells can likely be added. Two 10-cell packs would probably work nicely.

Using the next size up Graupner glow prop is not a realistic option due to the hub size change. Perhaps another prop manufacturer could be used also. I like the look and feel of this Graupner glow prop though, it's appearance conveys power.

On my current setup, my 40amps provides about 75 watts/lb. This is enough power to fly it but we'll see how well it loops and rolls when I fly it again for the video.

By increasing cells, the 4130/16 can provide 976 watts at 49amps. This would be around 100 watts/lb once you add in the extra cell weight.

I have decided to use a 6s4p Kokam 1500HC pack instead. The pack is made from eight 3-cell Kokam packs or two groups of 4 paralleled packs in series. This will plug right into my existing wiring setup using the Kokam Parallel Connector Modules. The 6s4p pack provides a 6AH capacity and can deliver 50amps continuous current which is what I expect to draw at full power from the higher voltage.

The 6s4p Kokam pack weighs only 33oz compared to a 20-cell, CP2400 pack at 43oz. My duration will triple while dropping 10oz (.6lbs) in weight. The power level will increase to around 110 watts/lb.

< Message edited by Greg Covey -- 3/8/2004 2:37:39 PM >

_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Kelvin)
       Post #: 110

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/8/2004 7:30 PM   
mikeatk@cox.net


 

Posts: 22
Score: 100
Joined: 6/16/2002
Last Login: 10/15/2009
From: Chandler, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Greg,

Have you made any decisions about which motor is best suited to your model, the 4130/16 or the 4130/20? What would be the advantge of the 4130/16 your using now.

Thanks

Mike

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 111

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/8/2004 8:19 PM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Mike,

The main difference between the 4130/16 and the 4130/20 motors is that you can obtain about a 1 killo-watt power level at 49amps vs. 31amps; respectively. Using equal cell types, the duration of flight with the 4130/20 will be much longer.

The 4130/20 requires about 1/3 more cells to do it (30 vs. 20) which means more weight and more cost. The additional weight of 10 more CP2400 cells is 21.5oz or 1.3lbs.

Perhaps on a big scale Sunday-flyer like the Monocoupe or Cub the weight gain has less effect and the duration increase a higher priority. For a scale warbird, the weight gain dramatically affects performance so duration becomes a "crutch".

The solution here is to keep the weight down using less cells. Changing cell technology to Lithium will benefit everything (except your wallet).

Finally, one other reason for choosing the 4130/20 may be that you already have 25-30 lighter CP1700 cells (versus the heavier CP2400 or GP3300 cells). In this manner, you can design an equivalent 1KW power system using existing cells and have similar duration and weight as my 4130/16 setup on 18-20 CP2400 cells.

< Message edited by Greg Covey -- 3/8/2004 8:22:31 PM >

_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to mikeatk@cox.net)
       Post #: 112

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/10/2004 4:01 AM   
DeafOldRocker


 

Posts: 56
Score: 100
Joined: 12/19/2003
Last Login: 6/23/2005
From: Reading, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Mike

I have been following this thread out of curiosity and have found it very interesting. Now things have changed! My Wife has surprised me as a birthday present with a Hanger 9 P-51 .60 ARF. The problem is I dont want an IC plane and the hobby shop will not take it back, they will only give store credit.

What I would like to do is convert it to Electric as you have done with the Corsair. I have some scratch and kit building under my belt, however I usually use the recommended setups and know little about how to choose the right components. I am doing research to change this.

My question is will the motor/esc/battery setup you are using work for the P-51? I believe the weight is the same on both models. I would want to have enough power to fly like a warbird, but am not concerned about extreme acrobatics. I want to start with NiMh batteries and eventually move to Lipos when I convert my other planes to them.

Another question I have is about the power setup for my trainer. I have a Telemaster 70 which is powered by a Graupner Speed 700 35 amp speed controll and two 8 cell 1500 mAh Nicads packs. This is a 70 inch wingspan and weighs 6.5 pounds. While I have been flying small electric RTF such as the Areobird and the Figther bird, this is the plane I will take lessons on from an instructer.

Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

Matt

Hide Signatures

(in reply to mikeatk@cox.net)
       Post #: 113

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/10/2004 5:04 AM   
flyboss



Posts: 33
Score: 100
Joined: 1/7/2003
Last Login: 9/3/2007
From: usa, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Dear Matt,
I converted the H9 P51 and wrote a review article in the QuietFlyer Magazine a while back. It is a fantastic ARF kit to convert simple to build and easy to fly, I got many flights on mine here is my setup Hacker 11Xl 6.7:1 turning a APC E 17x10 prop controlled by Hacker 77 speed controll, Ultimate BEC and juiced by Thunder Power Lithium 4S4P and 3S4P 7.8 AH/ 14.8 V which yield 55min flying time on one charge!! All the above goodies and great advice are available from Zb at www.espritmodel.com
go for it you will not regret this conversion!!


Hide Signatures

(in reply to DeafOldRocker)
       Post #: 114

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/10/2004 6:39 AM   
DeafOldRocker


 

Posts: 56
Score: 100
Joined: 12/19/2003
Last Login: 6/23/2005
From: Reading, PA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

I converted the H9 P51 and wrote a review article in the QuietFlyer Magazine a while back. It is a fantastic ARF kit to convert simple to build and easy to fly, I got many flights on mine here is my setup Hacker 11Xl 6.7:1 turning a APC E 17x10 prop controlled by Hacker 77 speed controll, Ultimate BEC and juiced by Thunder Power Lithium 4S4P and 3S4P 7.8 AH/ 14.8 V which yield 55min flying time on one charge!! All the above goodies and great advice are available from Zb at www.espritmodel.com
go for it you will not regret this conversion!!


Thanks for the Reply. I subscribe to Quiet Flyer, do you remember what issue? I would like to read it. Isnt the Hacker quite pricey compared to the AXI? And is the performace diff if any worth it? I am really just learning about the various componets and my head is swimming.

I have a budget for the conversion (motor/esc/batt/servos/reciever etc) of about 800 dollars. I can spend more, however I would like to spend less!!!!

Hide Signatures

(in reply to DeafOldRocker)
       Post #: 115

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/10/2004 1:54 PM   
Matt Kirsch



Posts: 7248
Score: 105
Joined: 7/5/2002
Last Login: 11/7/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		You know, the P-51 and F4U may have been the two best fighters of the war, but I really think the P-51 should have its own thread

One motor manufacturer that you seem to be overlooking is Aveox, especially right now, especially in the USA. The Aveox 36/38 series is priced around $150, and the rough numbers I've run for them look promising. They're capable of 50K RPM, which means they'll hold up to high cell counts, and the max current ratings are all ample, ranging from 50 to 120 Amps depending on the wind. On a 60-size plane, run 20 cells, gear and prop for 50 Amps, and you're set. The 36/38/3 looks like it might make the best choice on an MEC Superbox or Monsterbox.

Hide Signatures

(in reply to DeafOldRocker)
       Post #: 116

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/10/2004 2:39 PM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Matt,

Well, as you can see, there are many alternatives to powering your P-51 and we offer plenty of advice here at RCU.

Let me try to clear up some issues for you.

First, using Lithium packs on any power system will drastically increase performance, duration, and cost! Since this is a given, we can eliminate it from your initial decisions.

Second, the high Kv geared motors like Hacker, Aveox, Kontronic, and MaxCim all provide more than 1KW of power with a high degree of efficiency. I have all but one of these brands. The gearbox, however, does add complexity, cost, and maintenance.

Will your performance be better with this type of power system than with an AXI direct drive motor? Yes.

Is it worth the difference in cost? This is a personal choice for everyone.

In other words, do I need this level of power on my warbird? Another personal choice.

Is there a safer route to choose than just diving into it? Since any of these motors will require batteries and a 70-amp Opto ESC, you may initially option for the less expensive, maintenance-free solution since it is only about 40% of the cost.

Good luck!

< Message edited by Greg Covey -- 3/10/2004 2:41:51 PM >

_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Matt Kirsch)
       Post #: 117

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/10/2004 4:19 PM   
bassmanh



Posts: 685
Score: 105
Joined: 7/29/2002
Last Login: 11/8/2009
From: fond du lac, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Greg,
i have found this motors and gear box combo that looks to be a good introduction into electrics and have talked to the guy that owns the company, he has told me that these motors hold up O.K and brushes need to be replaced after about 20 or so flights depending on how you use them.

the price is not bad at all to get into electrics and the quality seems good as well. and also the power output is right up there with all brushless systems. heres the link check it out and see what you think.

http://innerdemon.com/id48.html


mitch

_____________________________

it landed in one piece ? what did i do wrong ?planes= H9 B-25, H9 Hellcat, Arrow, sky vista, WM spitfire, slowpoke

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 118

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/10/2004 5:03 PM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Mitch,

Yes, I know the Kyosho Endoplasma well. It is an "old friend" that i've used in many designs. Gary Wright was one of the first to exploit their low cost power in high reduction geared systems like that used in the E3D.

The problem here is that you only get about 400 watts out of these motors at 40 amps. Put two of them together in an Inner Demon gearbox and you approach the 1KW power level mentioned about but at a 80-90 amp cost. This produces very short flights and an added weight penalty of about 1/2 pound.

My Web site uses the geared Endoplasma on 3-5lb planes in various reduction ratios.

_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to bassmanh)
       Post #: 119

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/10/2004 5:14 PM   
bassmanh



Posts: 685
Score: 105
Joined: 7/29/2002
Last Login: 11/8/2009
From: fond du lac, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Greg,
BTW i forgot to mention i have decided to go with 16 cp 2400 nicads in my corsair and 14 in my AT-6 , any suggestions for props on this set-up ?

4120/14 16 cp2400scr cells for my corsair

2820/12 14 cp2400scr cells for my AT-6

thanks again


mitch

_____________________________

it landed in one piece ? what did i do wrong ?planes= H9 B-25, H9 Hellcat, Arrow, sky vista, WM spitfire, slowpoke

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 120

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/10/2004 5:46 PM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Mitch,

On my 4120/14 in my Skylark, I measured 46amps (700W) using an APC 14x7 e-prop.

On the 2820/12 with 14-cells, I would try a 10x6 prop.

_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to bassmanh)
       Post #: 121

RE: RE: SBEC - 3/10/2004 5:59 PM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		We have discovered that even when using the longest servo arm on the HS-75BB Retract servo, the travel is not sufficient to lock the wheels in both directions.

We moved the rod position on the belcrank from the inner hole to the outter hole by moving the quick link. In the photo, you can see the scored metal where the stock position of the quick link used to be.

With the extra travel, we can now adjust the rod to that the mechanism pin goes all the way to the end when the wheels are out and almost all the way to the other end when the wheels are retracted. Always adjust the rod on the servo arm so that a full lock is obtained when the wheels are out.

We also bent the rod going to the servo arm for a more favorable angle.

Finally, a slight bend in the gear mains allows them to stand upright when extended and seat into the wells better.

I'm looking forward to my next flight!

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize


< Message edited by Greg Covey -- 3/10/2004 6:01:43 PM >

_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 122

RE: RE: RE: SBEC - 3/11/2004 4:24 AM   
DeafOldRocker


 

Posts: 56
Score: 100
Joined: 12/19/2003
Last Login: 6/23/2005
From: Reading, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Greg,

Yes there is a lot of advice offered on this site and I appreciate it all.

I see you have chosen to go with the HS-85MG Mighty Micro servos instead of a full size servo. I see on the HITEC web site they caution against using a micro servo in place of a full size servo on large planes even if the torque is equal. Some thing about possible failure of the gearing due to the high load on the control surfaces and the thinner gears of the small servos. Is this a concern with this servo or does the fact that it has metal gears override this caution.


Matt

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 123

RE: RE: RE: SBEC - 3/11/2004 3:05 PM   
Greg Covey



Posts: 4814
Score: 104
Joined: 5/24/2003
Last Login: 11/4/2009
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Status: offline 		Matt,

You got it. The metal gear version is much stronger than the nylon version. Also, note that Hitec does not mention any difference for electric flight. Typically, everything is much happier without those nasty glow engine vibrations!

Regards.

_____________________________

Visit my Web Hangar at www.gregcovey.com/rc.htm

Hide Signatures

(in reply to DeafOldRocker)
       Post #: 124

RE: RE: RE: SBEC - 3/11/2004 7:06 PM   
DeafOldRocker


 

Posts: 56
Score: 100
Joined: 12/19/2003
Last Login: 6/23/2005
From: Reading, PA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greg Covey

Matt,

You got it. The metal gear version is much stronger than the nylon version. Also, note that Hitec does not mention any difference for electric flight. Typically, everything is much happier without those nasty glow engine vibrations!

Regards.


Yes they are nasty, I want to avoid the glow engine for the noise (I am not called DeafOldRocker for nothing).

This is off topic, however Do you think a Telemaster 70 (approx 6.5 pounds) with a speed 700 no gearing powered by 2 eight cell 1500mah nicad packs would be underpowerd or about right for a trainer? This is the setup I will be using to learn to fly "normal" aircraft vs the Aerobirds/Fighterbirds I am currently flying.

I think I will try the AXI motors, it seems that price vs more power is going to win out, especially since the P51 is more plane then I can currently handle skill wise. I wont fly the thing until my instructor clears me.

Thanks again
Matt

Hide Signatures

(in reply to Greg Covey)
       Post #: 125

Page:   <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12   next >   >>  
All Forums >> Electric Aircraft Universe >> Glow to Electric Conversions >> RE: Hangar 9 F4U Corsair
Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 12   next >   >>  




Jump to:


 
Google 



Search | Marketplace | Event Calendar | Local Clubs | Magazine | Product Ratings | New Products | Discussion Forums

Photo Gallery | Instructor Search | Field|Track|Marina Search

Advertisers | Hobby Vendor Resources | Rate Manufacturers | Sign In/Sign Up

SITE MAP!   : :   FORUM RULES

© 2001 - 2007 24-7 RC, LLC, all rights reserved.

Charities we support that also need your help
Yorkie Rescue | Humane Society | ASPCA | Crohn's-Colitis America

Kaango.com Classifieds

1.596RCU1