MOLD WAX QUESTION  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       



All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Composites Fabrication And Repair >> MOLD WAX QUESTION Page: [1] 2   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/8/2004 12:49:26 PM   
TOMMYSTA


 

Posts: 268
Joined: 2/21/2002
From: SOBIESKI, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Hi guys
Can you use regular car wax that is purchased at the local Wal Mart type store for waxing the mold prior to applying the PVA? I dont have access to a so called "parting wax" locally and was wondering if this would work...possibly a carnuba type wax paste or even turtle wax.
And as long as I'm posting, if the plug or inside of the mold is waxed with numerous coats do you still need a parting agent? I know this may sound like a dumb question but I'm doing my first mold/layup project...sort of like a tooling virgin!!! BE GENTLE PLEASE (just kidding)...
Are there any other other release agents other than PVA that can be used?
Sorry for all the questions but thanks in advance for all the help.
Tom
       Post #: 1

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/8/2004 5:25:56 PM   
Mel Francis



Posts: 325
Joined: 9/5/2003
From: Oconomowoc , WI, USA
Status: offline 		Regular car wax doesn't contain enough carnuba, to work as a release agent.

I'm sure you don't want to risk the extreme disappointment of completely destroying your first plug, mold, or part, so stick with things that work. During first cycles of a new mold, always use PVA over your wax layer.

You do have access to these products, here: http://www.rexco-usa.com/part.htm They'll arrange delivery right to your door.

I've worked in the trade for the last 35 years, and wouldn't attempt molding without a proper release system, unless I was stuck on a desert island, or something like that.

Come to think of it, if I WAS stuck on a desert island with epoxy resin and glass, I'd use my cellphone to arrange a UPS air-drop delivery of Partall!

< Message edited by Mel Francis -- 1/8/2004 12:00:37 PM >

(in reply to TOMMYSTA)
       Post #: 2

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/8/2004 7:51:36 PM   
hayman



Posts: 134
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: privite, PA, USA
Status: offline 		I have heard and witnessed people using the brand name "Butchers Wax" with great success with and without PVA. It can be found in you Lowe's or Home Depot. http://www.butcherwax.com

Of course if you apply several coats of wax per instructions, and apply the PVA correctly you should have a good barrier and should experience no problems.

IMHO

Bill

Vacuum Bagging Made Easy

(in reply to Mel Francis)
       Post #: 3

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/8/2004 10:11:02 PM   
rcalfred



Posts: 391
Joined: 12/7/2001
From: Elk Grove Village, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Follow Mel"s advice. There is nothing more frustrating than having your project "glued" together. I made a mold for a cowl for a friend who was told by some else that he only had to use wax to make his part. WRONG. He came back to me later asking if I could get the part unstuck from the mold. Nothing could be done. BTW there are numerous suppliers available. My favorite is Fibreglass Developments in Dayton, Ohio. They have a website: www.fiberglast.com/. Regards.

< Message edited by rcalfred -- 1/8/2004 10:16:04 PM >


_____________________________

Al Sortwell
AMA 15663

(in reply to hayman)
       Post #: 4

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/8/2004 10:25:02 PM   
TOMMYSTA


 

Posts: 268
Joined: 2/21/2002
From: SOBIESKI, WI, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for responses.
But can you use regular car was before the PVA is applied or should you use a special type wax that is more compatible with the PVA?
Seeing how I dont have access to a spray gun, can the PVA just be brushed on and if so
hown many coats?
Thanks Tom

(in reply to rcalfred)
       Post #: 5

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/8/2004 10:43:09 PM   
Mel Francis



Posts: 325
Joined: 9/5/2003
From: Oconomowoc , WI, USA
Status: offline 		You might find that the PVA beads up too much on the surface of a regular auto wax, and that will not give you the even-thickness barrier coating you need.

PVA can be brushed, but flows out best over the more compatible wax that is supplied by the above-mentioned company.

Try a small experimental area, either on your plug, or a made up-test patch, before committing the entire model to the process.

Try to rent, or borrow a small paint sprayer gun. You can even work with an electric airless type sprayer. Set it for a fine mist.

(in reply to TOMMYSTA)
       Post #: 6

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/8/2004 11:20:22 PM   
hayman



Posts: 134
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: privite, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Believe it or not, an aerosol can of extra strength hair spray is a great substitute for PVA. No compressor needed, washes out with water and if you are married there is a good chance you all ready have a supply of it in you bathroom.

Several light coats and you are good to go, of course this is after you wax.

Finish shouldn't be too bad if you are going to paint you part in the final stage.

Bill


Vacuum Bagging Made Easy

(in reply to Mel Francis)
       Post #: 7

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/8/2004 11:41:15 PM   
KC-135


 

Posts: 71
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Lexington, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Go to any store and buy Johnson floor wax its a paste. It works excellent. when buying a release wax make sure it doesn't contain silicon.Most car wax contain this.

(in reply to hayman)
       Post #: 8

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/9/2004 1:20:46 AM   
Kevin Greene



Posts: 2651
Joined: 3/28/2002
From: Jackson, TN, USA
Status: offline 		KC-135

Did you use any type of PVA or similar product after waxing??? I have a set of gear doors that I want to make molds for. I will be laying up the molds over the fiberglass fuselage---You are ABSOLUTELY sure that Johnson's paste wax will give me the desired results???

Kevin

(in reply to KC-135)
       Post #: 9

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/9/2004 1:33:58 AM   
KC-135


 

Posts: 71
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Lexington, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Yes,Its almost total carnuba wax, make sure its the floor paste wax, its used for hard wood floors and other things. You can buy it at wally world .I use it for my cowlings using epoxy as a medium and works excellent. If your mold is new you need to season it by laying up a few. Wax and buff at least five coats letting each coat dry.Then you can use pva for the first few layups. After that just a couple of coats of wax and there you go.

(in reply to Kevin Greene)
       Post #: 10

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/9/2004 1:44:26 AM   
KC-135


 

Posts: 71
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Lexington, OK, USA
Status: offline 		For a parting agent for making a mold is the same.More coats better the results. I found with Pva if you if you brush it on, wet the brush with a little water and go over it and it will layout nice. I use a hair dryer to help dry it faster then if theres any imperfection take the wet brush and go over it. It takes a little practice but you,ll find the right amount water to brush where the PVA will flow smoothly.

(in reply to KC-135)
       Post #: 11

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/9/2004 2:26:11 AM   
Kevin Greene



Posts: 2651
Joined: 3/28/2002
From: Jackson, TN, USA
Status: offline 		KC-135,

Thanks for the quick reply!!! I've got some West Systems epoxy on hand----Will this work to make a mold??? I'm not going to be making a lot of parts but an original gear door set and a couple more in case they become damaged.

What I've got is a Composite Arf EuroSport jet that I want to make some gear doors for it. The openings for the gear/wheel wells have not been cut out at the factory. I'm wanting to make a set of doors before cutting out the wheel wells so that at a later date I can fit gear doors if so desired.

TIA---Kevin

(in reply to KC-135)
       Post #: 12

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/9/2004 5:31:38 PM   
KC-135


 

Posts: 71
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Lexington, OK, USA
Status: offline 		Yes,west system is an excellent product and should do what your after.Go to fiberlay web site they have good information and the resins are excellent with different pot times.

(in reply to Kevin Greene)
       Post #: 13

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/10/2004 12:21:51 AM   
Ed Smith


 

Posts: 2853
Joined: 12/29/2001
From: Brantford, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		You have been warned! Some household/Automotive waxes MIGHT work, most will not. Use the correct product for the application. For mold release use mold release wax, NOTHING ELSE!. If you do not follow this advice you have yourself to blame for the certain disaster that will befall you.

Ed S

(in reply to KC-135)
       Post #: 14

RE: MOLD WAX QUESTION - 1/10/2004 12:53:42 AM   
Kevin Greene



Posts: 2651
Joined: 3/28/2002
From: Jackson, TN, USA
Status: offline 		Ed,

That's what I was concerned about. I'm going to give the Johnson's paste wax a try but on test pieces first. I have some excess fiberglass cut out from a canopy area that I'll give several coats of wax to and then make a mock mold lay up, including a final re-inforcement layer of carbon fiber cloth for ridgidity. I'll let you guys know how it goes...

Kevin

PS---Anyone, tell me if my method is right....First wax several times like the Karate Kid. (Wax on....Wax off!) Next, I plan on applying 3/4 ounce cloth for the first layer so that the final product will have a smooth surface. Apply a few more layers of 2 ounce cloth at differing angles followed by a final layer of heavy carbon cloth. Let cure over night and pray the plug will not stick to the mold. Is there anything else I should or shouldn't do????

TIA---Kevin

< Message edited by Kevin Greene -- 1/10/2004 12:56:10 AM >

(in reply to Ed Smith)