RE: xmods vs miniz

RE: xmods vs miniz
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RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/2/2004 12:52:43 PM

Posts: 142
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Stratford-Upon-Avon, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline

Tigger... No I have not driven a Mini-Z. My statement that my Xmods would make the term 'easily' was purely meant to communicate that there would be room to spare in making the turn - it was not intended as a relative comparison with any other vehicle OTHER than another Xmods (yours). Swap the work 'comfortably' for 'easily' if you wish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigger N Bennie.
I was going to ignore this post, but I believe this may be what Devedander is referring: "(ST TRIM will revert to the factory setting when the controller has been turned off.)" Xmod Owner's Manual at Page 15.

I know... but I was trying to offer some advice on how Devedender could 'fix' / workaround his annoyance. I thought these forums were about helping folks, if I provided information that you already possesed then please forgive the duplication and move on.

In addition you say

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tigger N Bennie.
"Most" transmitter radios that I know of and all the radios I own, except the new Xmod radio, will "retain" the owner-modified transmitter settings. My Futaba T3PK even has both a subtrim and trim.

Sigh... we're back to the "what do you get for 50 bucks" discussion. The Xmods is not a Mini-Z, it is undoubtedly 'inferior' in many ways (although I'm sure it has some areas where it excels) - but the Xmods is a great value package for $50. I'm no expert of TX costs, but having done a quick web search, from what I can see you would have to search hard to buy a T3PK alone for less than $50..... Accept the Xmods for what it is and you'll have fun, if you spend your time in constantly berating it then you're going to waste your time.

Devedander. No I am not sliding the car around - I'm talking about the turning circle at low speed. Obviously physics and traction play a part as speed increases, my point is that the turning circle is more than enough to get around a corner such as Tigger shows on his track... if you go fast enough then no amount of steering lock will get you around a bend without you sliding / drifting (which require relatively little steering lock).

The whole discussion about 'driving', 'handling' and 'cornering' is something of a semantic mine field. Personally I think the key words here are 'cornering' and 'turning circle'. My experience of my brothers AWD Supra was that drifting / sliding (i.e. high speed cornering) are more predictable and composed - RWD is much easier to spin out. However, his turning circle was noticeably worse.
So does AWD improve (high speed) cornering (and arguably 'handling')? Yes.
Does it improve turning circle? No.

This should not be a surprise as it's the same with real world cars... I've driven assorted front, rear and AWD cars - including derivatives of the same vehicles with different drive configs (FWD Audis and AWD Audi Quattros, RWD Ford Sierras and AWD Sierra 4x4s...). At 'normal' road speeds you notice little difference... other than that the AWD is a little slower when fitted with the same engine. When you get into car parks or your driveway you notice more restricted turning circles on AWD - but once you start to push things (I'm talking about 4 wheel drifts around roundabouts

) then you see where AWD fits in. Obviously wet / snow traction is also improved but not adviseable for an Xmods

(in reply to Devedander)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/2/2004 4:11:40 PM

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/29/2004
From: pittsburg, CA,
Status: offline

Hey there, Groucho, thanks for that link. I read it before, but forgot where I found it and have been too lazy to dig it up again.

And, yes folks, he's right about AWD. Being that there is less room up front due to the diff and half shafts (also, remember the half shafts restrict movement as well), the AWD tends to have a wider turning radius. A RWD vehicle will almost always have a more narrow turning radius.

A real world comparison: My mom has an AWD BMW 325IX. Great car, but you have to make a 3pt to turn around on your average residential street. I have a RWD 240sx. I can do donuts in the driveway if I wanted to. I also had a FWD Corrado. Again, great car

but I couldn't u-turn worth a damn. The Beemer out handles all the above. We drove it to tahoe a couple years ago, didn't have to use chains during a snow storm, yet never lost traction on 10 year old low perf street tires. I used to power slide my Corrado all the time. I really hate breaking traction in a FWD... damn scary. They always tend to plow straight ahead into whatever obstacle you were turning to avoid. My RWD 240sx is even worse! I can break traction in any gear, at any speed, at will. The difference is that it fishtails instead of plows so it's super easy to control (and fun as all hell).

Whoever wrote that 'Shack ad was on crack though. Granted, AWD will give you more speed efficiency by putting power to all four, but the added weight and resistance will definately slow you down. Before I added two more batteries to my xmod, I was creeping along with my AWD upgrade getting my ass handed to me by the RWDers.

Now, onto more important things... anyone know where I can get a block of aluminum? I need to fab a better motor mount for my center overhead motor M18.

-j

(in reply to UKgroucho)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/2/2004 5:48:42 PM

Tigger N. Bennie

Posts: 8396
Joined: 9/28/2003
From: Track, USA
Status: offline

Devedander,
The Shack where I purchased the Xmod didn't have the bearings and although it may help, I also figured that since the bushings are still new, they should be up to speed.

As my earlier post shows, the Xmod already has the steering set up and the Kyosho Mini-Z tires should be more than "grippy" enough for the track. I do plan to order some lower degreed tires. The bad thing is that even 20s don't last that long on an RCP Track and it would sure seem like a waste to have to use 5s on a slower car just to get it to handle the turns. I have used the soft springs in the front and rear, just not both at the same time--I know that when using the Mini-Z, I definitely cannot use soft springs all the way around but perhaps the AWD is different. However, I will test the Xmod in 2WD later tonight.

UKgroucho,
The point of me bringing up the T3PK is that I can use a non-Kyosho transmitter with my Mini-Zs, but it appears that one must use an Xmod transmitter with an Xmod. Consequently, the Xmod owner is "stuck" with a low-quality radio transmitter. One reason I purchased an Xmod is to give it a chance and to actually be able to compare it to a Mini-Z instead of reading countless threads by people who "bow to" or "praise" one car and degrade the other though they have never owned "both" a Mini-Z or a Xmod. Ironically, one of the greatest things I kept reading about Xmods is that there is an AWD option and now its suggested that I dump the Xmod option so it can complete a basic turn.

quote:

ORIGINAL: miraj360
Whoever wrote that 'Shack ad was on crack though.

It does make one wonder... As I wrote above, I'll try out the Xmod without the AWD option later tonight.

(in reply to miraj360)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/2/2004 9:19:03 PM

Posts: 91
Joined: 1/20/2004
From: Newark, CA, USA
Status: offline

All I know is that my Xmod could not turn worth a damn until I put the AWD upgrade in there, but who knows maybe something is/was screwed up on my Xmod. It may also be a difference between the short and long models. Without the AWD my Skyline did not seem to have enough power to keep the wheels cranked during a turn, but with the AWD perhaps having power to all 4 tires it was able to power through a bit quicker? Who knows....

quote:

Honestly I think the Xmod starts out horrible and gets better all the way up to pretty good

quote:

the MiniZ starts out great and goes on to be incredible when it's hopped up.

Those are beautiful simple statements.

(in reply to Tigger N. Bennie)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/2/2004 10:26:47 PM

Posts: 142
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Stratford-Upon-Avon, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline

BovineD... odd, maybe you have a weak servo up front. My car is also a Skyline and it turns just fine, just got my brother to pick up Civic and mods so I can collect it when I visit again next week and bring it back as a guest ride

I don't think it makes any difference which model you get.. wheelbase seems to be fixed, they just add different 'sub chassis' / hangers to the front (& back?) for the body to sit on top of.

TNB. Your point about not being able to switch to a better TX is well made... it's an option that I'd considered before I discovered that it was NOT an option. I guess there are two sides to it... the quality of the TX that they include is pretty much what you'd expect for the price of an Xmods, in fact IMO it's pretty decent considering the overall package price, BUT, not allowing you to upgrade the TX easily is pretty unforgiveable. You have to wonder just how much you'd have to change to be able to use another TX... probably so much that you might as well buy a Mini-Z to start with.

On the tires... did you get the 'upgrade' pack from RS...? 4 sets of assorted tires - one set each of hard slick, soft slick, hard patterned, soft patterned. They're only $8 and you might find a combo that gives enough grip and drift capabilities.

I heard a comment that you should not leave the bearing upgrade too long... the little plastic bushes start to move around if you use the car a lot / hard and will wear the mounting points and make the bearings seat unevenly when you do fit them. Not sure if it's true (maybe RS marketing propaganda) but if you plan to do it then hunt some down.

Spoke with a collegue today and he mentioned that he had an RC car... He'd done a visit to one of our customers and they gave it to him. "
"Not quite sure what it is but it's really fast... kyusi, coshi"
"Do you mean Kyosho?"
"Yeah that's it"

Gotta find a reason to visit those guys.... Williams F1 team.

The sin is he's using alkaline batteries in it

(in reply to BovineD)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/2/2004 10:58:16 PM

Tigger N. Bennie

Posts: 8396
Joined: 9/28/2003
From: Track, USA
Status: offline

UKgroucho,
The local Shack I stopped at didn't have any tires, but that shouldn't really matter since I used Kyosho Mini-Z tires on the Xmod and I pretty much know which tires work on the RCP Track. I have 50, 40, 30, and 20 tire sets--20s are the softest by Kyosho. So far, the Kyosho tires seem to "stick" to the Xmod and I know they stick to the track. I may get the bearings later since I can pass by two different Shacks on the way to one of the local hobby shops depending on the route. For now, I'd rather get the Xmod to turn better.

Your collegue is lucky getting a free Mini-Z F1. He should really get a kick out of it once he switches to NiMH. Myself I don't care for the new Williams F1 body because it has such a big freaking nose, but the chrome helmet is a very nice touch. I know someone who is selling one now and I recently traded him my Ferrari body for an older Honda-Jordan body. He is trying to make all "red" Mini-Zs now. I like yellow because I can see the car easier and so can the other drivers. Now I have two Honda-Jordan bodies (one with a pointy nose and one with a big nose--different seasons, but not the newest "vodka" body).

Of course, the "lost $200K diamond" would make a nice price (last F1 race). Do you ever get over to the McLaren Technology Centre? Love their website and Kyosho is releasing a Mini-Z-MR02 McLaren MM LM, which is at the top of my list of future RCs.
http://www.mclaren.com/technologycentre/

(in reply to UKgroucho)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/2/2004 11:04:16 PM

Posts: 29
Joined: 4/28/2003
From: santa rosa, CA, USA
Status: offline

Aboutt he stock controller:

Yeah the thing is the the Iwaver comes with a rippoff Kyosho controller that works pretty darn well and has all the features the miniz controller has. I admit a good controller is gonna set you back a bit, but if it's not gonna be an option don't stick with something that horribly flawed. I mean even the ZZSE has adjustable steering that stays adjusted! In fact the ZZSE controller IMO is a much better device than the Xmod one, granted it's horrible to hold, but the features it packs in are incredible!

The problem with the crappy controller and servo that RS uses isn't so much that they are crappy, but it seems that RS went out of their way to make sure they were crappy. I have to wonder how much they really saved on the parts by moving to a stepped steering system and forcing their own type of radio gear and using those trim buttons rather than some simple knobs? Honestly the Iwaver just goes to show that that kind of quality CAN be had for $50. So why did RS go and make up their own way to do things... and do them worse, when the standard way to do them would have been pretty easy and considering how proliferate manufacturing of those types of devices is, should have been very inexpensive comapred to R&D for your own type of setup?

Oh and get the RS tire upgrade pack, the sticky RS tires are really good and treaded nicely. They will wear FAST but they are great and for the price you can't go wrong. They are so sticky I actually put them on my MiniZ (had to use some tape shims) and the steering is excellent on that now. Kudos to RS for making an excellent tires set and making it cheap.

And groucho maybe you got a great car or something, I have never seen an Xmod with a really good turning raidus, every xmod I have seen would not be able to pull a U turn on a scale 4 lane road. I honestly think the wheels just dont turn far enough.

And AWD usually screws up turning radius because it has a differential in the front and powers the inside wheel (as well as outside). The inside wheel on a turn usually wants to slow down or sit almost still, when you power it you force the inside radius of your turn to increase, thus reducing turning radius. Also RWD tends to push on the front wheels more increasing their effectiveness. However for some reason with the Xmod mine just turns better with AWD than with not... it defies logic... but it does.

(in reply to UKgroucho)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/2/2004 11:33:10 PM

Posts: 13
Joined: 5/29/2004
From: pittsburg, CA,
Status: offline

Tigger, I wasn't saying you're on crack. I was saying the actual marketing writer of the ad was on crack. The guy who worked at Radio Shack marketing who printed that ad was also on crack.

-j

(in reply to UKgroucho)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/3/2004 12:06:52 AM

Tigger N. Bennie

Posts: 8396
Joined: 9/28/2003
From: Track, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: miraj360
Tigger, I wasn't saying you're on crack.

I realized that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devedander
Oh and get the RS tire upgrade pack, the sticky RS tires are really good and treaded nicely. They will wear FAST but they are great and for the price you can't go wrong. They are so sticky I actually put them on my MiniZ (had to use some tape shims) and the steering is excellent on that now. Kudos to RS for making an excellent tires set and making it cheap.

You make it sould like the Xmod tires are 5s or at least lower than Kyosho 20s. If they are that low I'll pick up several sets and try them on my MR-02s. Either way, I may drive down to one of the "other" Shacks and pick up a bearing set and tires. Whats a few more dollars on this experiment. By the way, I checked out my first Iwaver at Hobby People Sunday. It didn't look that bad, but I've never driven one and it was still in the box. They even started selling Kyosho MMTs. I guess the "micro" world is going "macro" locally.

(in reply to miraj360)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/3/2004 12:37:17 AM

Posts: 27
Joined: 11/2/2002
From: Dover, DE,
Status: offline

I'm getting an MR-02 along with an Iwaver but since there's a Radio
Shack 2 min from here I decided to try an X-mod. I got the add-on tires,
Stage 2 motors, lights, and the body kit for the Skyline. With the blue
(built for speed) motor this thing is pretty quick. I haven't seen the Kyosho
or Iwaver in person but for the meantime I'm really enjoying this car.

If anyone is on the fence about X-mods, if you are willing to spend a little
more, get the upgrades, esp the Stage 2 motors and tires. Lots of fun!

(in reply to Tigger N. Bennie)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/3/2004 12:48:28 AM

Tigger N. Bennie

Posts: 8396
Joined: 9/28/2003
From: Track, USA
Status: offline

From a 757 to an Xmod, now that's a switch.

(in reply to Hawker1)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/3/2004 1:23:52 AM

Posts: 142
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Stratford-Upon-Avon, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline

Devedander... not a great turning circle but good enough 'around the house' - it get slid around most of the time anyway... probably 30 inches for left turns and a little more for right.

TNT.. McLaren mmmmmm. Sadly not had an opportunity to visit them. The McLaren F1 is one of my favourite sims in Need for Speed High stakes though... with my Logitech MOMO Force wheel it's a blast.
Cosworth used to be one of my clients - nothing like sitting in a meeting with an open window on a hot day and hearing them destruction testing the engines "we rev 'em until they break and then pull them apart to see what went wrong". Also got to attend some meetings at the Benetton plant some years back... you're walking to your meeting room over a raised bridge and they're assembling the F1 cars for next weekend in the workshop below. Cool

iWavers. They sound great but.... I got to the checkout stage on the toyeast web site earlier this week with a Porsche, an Audi TT and two step motors in the basket. Pretty pleased with the deal until I saw the shipping costs. I'm not short of money but I hate being ripped off - and $50 for shipping is outrageous... it's either that or they send it via the slowest route possible. I bailed.

(in reply to Tigger N. Bennie)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/3/2004 2:27:14 AM

Posts: 27
Joined: 11/2/2002
From: Dover, DE,
Status: offline

I started out in R/C cars, years before I got into planes and then the 757.

(in reply to UKgroucho)

RE: xmods vs miniz - 6/3/2004 6:17:32 AM