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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/27/2002 10:56:22 PM   
Propwash-don


 

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I'm planning on running my first YS engine this summer. I have about 4 gallons of 15% 2 cycle fuel (2% castor), which has worked fine in my other 4 cycles, will it be OK to use it in the YS till it's used up.
I have read in other threads and the YS Poop-Sheet that 20/20 is the recommended fuel. Now can I take it that the 20/20 fuel is for optimum performance and the engine will still perform satisfactorily on standard fuel (for sport use) without causing any damage to the engine.
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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/28/2002 1:19:52 AM   
w8ye



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The engine will perform best with 20-20 or better yet some Morgan 30% heli. But the fuel you have on hand is just fine. The only drawback is the extra carbon that will be formed in the exhaust valve pocket by the caster. The other drawback is that caster will gum up the regulator if left in there any length of time. I've run the fuel with the 2% caster in mine and it hasn't gummed up yet. But I plan to flush the regulator for next winter.

Enjoy,

Jim

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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/28/2002 7:18:31 AM   
Geistware



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Make sure that you run the engine rich if you have less than 18% oil content. You should be OK

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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/28/2002 7:38:33 AM   
snsmith



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You could "spike" your 15% fuel with nitro. Klotz makes stuff called Nitroil, which is 78% nitro and 22% oil, which is added to the fuel to increase it's nitro content. I've done this to 15% Cool Power when I can't get my hands on 20/20. If you can't find it at your LHS and they can't order it, it can be ordered directly from Klotz on their web site:

http://www.klotzlube.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=KS&Product_Code=Nitroil&Category_Code=RC_PRODUCTS

(If this doesn't work, try navigating through the Klotz site via the R/C Products links...)

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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/28/2002 8:16:10 AM   
mglavin



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YS Engines seem to run best on 20% nitro fuel content. You did not mention the oil content of your fuel, a 2% Castor mix is negligible and will produce insignificant trace amounts of carbon build-up if any...

Your user's manual should suggest the same information, If I recall YS states 18-20% oil by volume with either Castor or Synthetic.

The 2% Castor mix of oil coupled with Synthetic oil in a combined mix by volume of the fuel your using provides many benefits. Worry not. I suggest you load the motor lightly with the 15% fuel and you'll be a happy modeler. In the future obtain at least 20% fuel.

I do not suggest running the engine rich, there is no advantage...
Load the engine a little lighter as I suggested [a smaller prop] Warm the engine up, needle the engine for maximum rpm as viewed with an accurate tachometer, richen the engine to obtain an rpm reading of say 400-500 rpm less than maximum and have loads of fun.....

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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/28/2002 8:45:45 PM   
mglavin



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I was reviewing y owner's manual on a YS-63 this morning in reference to this post. I was very surprised to find the information listed below. This info is contrary to my experience with the 20 plus YS Engines I own and abuse for sport and Pylon Racing. I looked at several of my manuals from 45's, 91's to 120's of all model types and they suggest 18-20% oil. The oil type's or considerations are the same as listed below.

From my two weeks new YZ-63 manual:

[COLOR=blue]Use a good quality fuel which contains 15-30% nitro and oil content of 20-24%, synthetic or castor oil can be used, or a combination of synthetic and castor.[/COLOR]

Must be something new.... Or possibly an error?

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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/28/2002 11:01:41 PM   
outssider


 

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I tested my 120 fz on the bench. I used 15/20 and 20/20 for the test. on the same prop and the same day I tested these two fuels. I got a maximum of only 50 rpm's more when engine was peaked quickly then backed of.....between the two fuels!

Idle and transition was perfect with both fuels..no ..ascertainable difference was detected.

I then tried an inverted installation on the bench (piston facing down)...with 15 %... it still idled low and transitioned perfectly!

I have not tried both fuels in the air, so I don't know if the performance in the air will match the performance on the ground!

My personal opinion based on my tests is that the increased power created by 20/20 is more hype than reality

Therefore unless you need to scrape every last bit of power out of your engine...you probably will detect little difference between the two fuels !

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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/29/2002 7:26:00 AM   
Propwash-don


 

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Guys,
Thanks for all your feed back.

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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/29/2002 8:51:12 AM   
ChinookPilot


 

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Do not use any castor in a 4-stroke engine! Ask me why I know.

Sam

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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/29/2002 9:09:00 AM   
mglavin



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Ok, Sam I'll take the bait... [COLOR=orangered]Why not use castor oil in a four-stroke? [/COLOR]

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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/29/2002 10:26:23 AM   
ChinookPilot


 

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Mike,
Glad you asked. I know that you are the resident engine guru, but for what it's worth, here's the deal. A couple of years ago I purchased a new Saito 1.50 (my first large 4 stroke) and proceeded to break it in on the test stand. I had heard that a little castor used for break-in would not hurt the engine so I used Wild Cat 15% premium extra thinking that the extra castor would provide a little better lubricity and high temp protection during the first few runs. After about 2-1/2 tankfuls (12 oz) on the third run with needle settings consistent with factory specs, while at about 1/2 throttle, the engine suddenly popped loudly and stopped running as if someone had instantly quenched all glow properties--i.e. turned off the ignition switch.

Upon inspection, I found that the crank turned very freely as it had lost all compression. After removing the valve covers, I quickly learned that the exhaust valve was stuck in the open position and that, of course, caused all kinds of other problems in the valve train. Since this was a relatively new engine, I called Horizon Hobby and they told me to send it back to them for inspection and repair.

A few weeks later I recieved my engine back and it was in good running order--and not a penny charged for the repair. The engine people there wrote that they suspected that the castor oil in the fuel had caused the exhaust valve to stick thereby precipitating the catastrophic failure which I experienced. Their recommendation was that castor oil should not be used in 4 stroke engines for this reason--especially Saitos. It would stand to reason that this could apply to other brands also.

Anyway, bottom line is that I have never used castor in any fuel used in any of my 4 strokes since then and have not had a failure of this type to date again. By the way, I own and operate 7 Saitos, 1 OS, and 4 YS four stokes. Hope my misfortune will shed some light on the subject and prevent others from experiencing the same problem.

Sam

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For what it is worth - 5/29/2002 10:48:45 AM   
Aerosplat



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I have a YS 120 FZ. I broke it in and have run it almost entirely on Cool Power 30 % Heli. I have almost two gallons through it now.
Last week I blew the head gasket. Upon removing the head I found the gasket had been improperly installed at the factory. It was not centered on top of the cylinder liner, and on one side only about .015" was pinched between the head and Cylinder. Of Course, this is where it blew. YS sent me a new gasket, and I have the engine running gerat again.

The point of all this----- When I removed the head, I found the Cylinder walls, combustion chamber, top of piston, and valves to be shinny clean. There was absolutely zero carbon buildup. The engine looked like it had already been cleaned and ready for rebuilding. The muffler (Slimline Pitts) looks very clean also.

Got to LOVE that synthetic oil.

And by the way, with the same prop, same day, I have measured 350 RPM increase between 30% and 20% Cool Power. ( in the 9000 rpm range)

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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/29/2002 11:56:28 AM   
mglavin



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Sam

You indeed had an unfortunate mechanical problem with your Saito 150, rest assured that it was a mechanical problem and not an oil related one.

I mean really, lets think about this; 12 ounces of fuel and you hang a valve... More than likely one of two things transpired and led to failure of your Saito.

1] Excessive heat realized from an over-propped, lugged and or a lean engine run caused the valve to stick. An exhaust leak at the cylinder head/muffler flange would also cause this to happen.

2] A mechanical failure due to manufacturing tolerances, faulty materials or parts, incorrect or inaccurate assembly procedures and or a lack of lubrication...

If you consider the 12 ounces of fuel you used was a premium synthetic-castor mix and is blended to yield an 18% by volume mix of oil that consist's of 95% synthetic and 5% Castor of the 18% percent oil. You'd have to burn alot more fuel, which was heavily laden with Castor oil to hang a valve and or even realize a residue. The actual percentage of Castor by volume is 0.9% with the Wildcat Premium Fuel you used...

Lets look at this from another standpoint, you send in your new toy engine and the techies [parts changers] repair it. They send it back with a note suggesting the Castor oil hung the valve rather than admit it may have actually been a manufacturing defect and or user mishandling. Everybody wins and Castor Oil is the scapegoat.

In the real world a good engine tech most likely would have been able to narrow down the actual cause and affect of your engines demise. In the service and manufacturing world its always the other guy's fault...

I've been using Castor Oil mixes as referenced above without ever having an oil related engine failure. I use and abuse my engines for pylon racing and sport use. The Castor Oil blended with Synthetics has many notable advantages. In the percentages quoted I cannot imagine any problems that one could or would assert was Castor Oil related... I have the used and abused engines to back this assumption... We beat the heck out of our YS Engines, do you know of other's that are using 65-80% Nitro, blended oil fuels with the 91's screaming at 12,000 plus and the 120's seeing 11,700rpm turning high pitch APC racing props??? The heat and abuse these engines see is far more detrimental than the average sport flyer's will ever see, far more...

Castor Oil is alive and well... It holds up to high temperatures, provides a rust inhibiting action and offers superior lubricating qualities in the face of harsh operating environments...

Synthetics are excellent oils, although they lack all of the qualities mentioned above... Therefore there is room for improvement...

Most flyer's utilizing a fuel blended with Synthetic oil will find it provides an adequate oiling package and guarantees trouble free service for many years to come... Then there are those other guys that want more...

Have Fun

< Message edited by mglavin -- May 30 2002 10:31PM >


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YS Engines and 20/20 Fuel - 5/30/2002 12:27:47 PM  &nbs