RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step  
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Tower Hobbies
Enter up to 4 keywords or Tower stock numbers
Logged in as Guest



Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
       


ZRC FW2 Flying-Wing Kit - Kit
Seller:  TowerZach
Details:   $40.00   |  11/25/2008   |  Classified Ad
We will rotate YOUR AD in this spot if you select "Forum Featured" when placing or editing your ad!

All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> 3D Flying! >> RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step
Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 11   next >   >>  

Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/30/2004 2:42:08 AM   
pizza



Posts: 380
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: salt lake city, UT,
Status: offline 		If I have understood well, to be able to fly 3D we beginners must learn
not to correct the wrong attitudes of our plane - to try to hold it for istance in hovering- but
to avoid its inevitable wrong attitudes with a right and preventive strategy.

Yes, unless you are Data from Startrek, he can always look and react. actually I was referring to a set stick routine for harriers mainly, the key to hovering is trimming the plane for 3d. most people trim the plane for level flight then try some 3d stuff and blame themselves for lousy airplane performance. When I started flying rc if the instructor didn't first trim the plane for me I would crash for sure. since many 3d maneuvers involve high alpha angles of attack lets trim the plane for this and make 3d flying as easy as possible. the problem is you cannot have it both ways, if you want a plane that is trim for straight and level - fly something else for this. The ultimate goal is to have a 3d trim setting to where you can pop into a hover on a day with little or no wind, set the radio down and get a cup of coffee. in order to achieve this you must adjust the thrust angle of the engine. most people will adjust elevator and rudder trim tabs (THIS IS A BIG MISTAKE) Hano Pretner once said if your control surfaces are not zeroed out something is wrong with your airplane. in 3d trim tabs don't remove difficulty just shifts it somewhere else. 3d airplanes with lots of trim are much more sensitive to environmental concerns. My diablotin (the one shown in pic section on this list) has lots of right thrust and lots of down as well, don't be afraid to experiment with huge angles, mount that engine on the side of fuse if required. with larger thrust angles the airplane might be a bit squerly on take off or balloon on landing or wonder at high speed, just keep it slow, you have another airplane for speed. now everyone will be touching the tail in a few days no further practice required. good luck ray

(in reply to Italian-flyer-delete)
       Post #: 76

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/30/2004 12:11:09 PM   
Italian-flyer-delete


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 1/4/2004
From:
Status: offline 		Hi people

THIS TOPIC IS NOT FOR THOSE WHO SAY: "PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE" [/clor]

Our slogan is: "LEARNING 3D STEP BY STEP" with intelligence and fun.

THIS TOPIC IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE INTERESTING.

Hi Pizza. You said:

"The ultimate goal is to have a 3d trim setting to where you can pop into a hover on a day with little or no wind, set the radio down and get a cup of coffee. in order to achieve this you must adjust the thrust angle of the engine. most people will adjust elevator and rudder trim tabs (THIS IS A BIG MISTAKE) Hano Pretner once said if your control surfaces are not zeroed out something is wrong with your airplane. in 3d trim tabs don't remove difficulty just shifts it somewhere else. 3d airplanes with lots of trim are much more sensitive to environmental concerns".

I WILL LEARN 3D MANOEUVERS WITH "MODELTECH MAGIC 3D". I HAVE MOUNTED "IRVINE .53" ON IT.
I MUST INCREASE THE RIGHT AND DOWN THRUST ANGLE.
HOW MANY MILLIMETERS RIGHT? HOW MANY MILLIMETERS DOWN?

WHAT "MIXINGS" DO YOU SUGGEST? WE ARE BEGINNERS. COULD YOU TELL US THE PRECISE VALUES OF CONTROL SURFACES AND OF "MIXINGS".

Vittorio from Italy a beautiful country

(in reply to pizza)
       Post #: 77

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/30/2004 2:40:16 PM   
AcroJo



Posts: 2279
Joined: 1/25/2003
From: Clarks Summit, PA, USA
Status: offline 		La Pizza, Bella!! Bene detto!!! A simple, yet realistic approach to the physics of 3D. Joe
(regarding thrust)

< Message edited by cumn thru -- 1/30/2004 9:58:13 AM >

_____________________________

Stranger in a strange place.

(in reply to pizza)
       Post #: 78

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/30/2004 9:27:50 PM   
Italian-flyer-delete


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 1/4/2004
From:
Status: offline 		Hi people

THIS TOPIC IS NOT FOR THOSE WHO SAY: "PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE"

Our slogan is: "LEARNING 3D STEP BY STEP" with intelligence and fun.

THIS TOPIC IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE INTERESTING

I'D LIKE TO SUMMARIZE FOR ALL 3D FLYING BEGINNERS:

1 - To be able to fly 3D we beginners must learn not to correct the wrong attitudes of our plane - to try to hold it for instance in hovering - but to avoid its inevitable wrong attitudes with a right and preventive strategy.

2 - we can start learning slow rolling circles by automatic movements. More the rolling circles are slow, more they become harrier rolling circles.

I'm training with REAL FLIGHT G2 and CAP 232. SET UP: "Time multiplier" 40%.
IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO DO SLOW ROLLING CIRCLES AND TO GO STRAIGHT FORWARD.

Hey, 3D Experts, some suggestions?

Vittorio from Italy a beautiful country.

(in reply to AcroJo)
       Post #: 79

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/30/2004 10:44:10 PM   
RCXPLANES



Posts: 535
Joined: 1/5/2003
From: Central Point, OR, USA
Status: offline 		In order for your slow rolling harriers to go straight rather than turn into rolling circles, it is necessary to delay your rudder or elevator inputs until the surface you are controling is closer to horizontal then hold it until it is past horizontal. If the corective input is put in at 90 degrees to the horizon, the plane will turn first then begin to pull the nose up.

For instance, If your plane is rolling slowly with left aileron input, The right rudder input nedds to be input at about 1/8 th of a roll and held until about 3/8 ths of the roll when you need to input down elevator untill about 5/8 ths of the roll when you need to input left rudder untill about 7/8 ths of the roll when you need to input up elevator to about 1/8 th of the next roll. Continue this for each additional roll.


_____________________________

Life is short. Fly hard and enjoy.
Bud Wilkinson, RC-Xplanes, www.rcxplanes.com

(in reply to Italian-flyer-delete)
       Post #: 80

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/31/2004 6:36:51 AM   
pizza



Posts: 380
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: salt lake city, UT,
Status: offline 		You are on the right track, you understand that a pre set "automatic" stick routine is the foundation to smooth rolling harriers and other complicated 3d manuvers. Mr. errolw98 describes exactly what is going on technically but in 3d flying there are just too many variables to allow for traditional see and react flying techniques, but this is not necessary. If you want a smooth rolling airplane then you need smooth constantly moving sticks. my automatic stick routine for rolling harriers will break your habit of moving a stick then releasing, or stopping or holding particular values at certain angles of attack. start with your airplane high, stright and level at nearly stall speed - now begin your rolling routine that you have been practicing in the dark at home. when the airplane starts lossing altitude your natural old instinct will be to speed up the right stick movement and or hold more elevator up or down, instead you want to slow the right stick, this will keep the elevator deflected longer where it is needed, slow down your rotation to match your new elevator routine. If you are having big trouble with rudder, try rolling using just ailerons and rudder, catch the airplane on knifedge.

I don't use any mixing or expo, our thumbs work linear so should the sticks, these make 3d more difficult and a set routine impossible. if you insist on expo and mixing you can leave it on your avistar trainer or imac plane. hope this helps, more to follow, ray

(in reply to Italian-flyer-delete)
       Post #: 81

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/31/2004 7:40:56 AM   
RCXPLANES



Posts: 535
Joined: 1/5/2003
From: Central Point, OR, USA
Status: offline 		Ray is absolutely correct.

I did explane technically what is required for the plane to track straight rather than begin a rolling circle. In my explaination it did sound as if these inputs should be done as a 1...2...3...4 type of movement which would in effect make the plane do what you wanted in a jerky fashion. I forgot to mention that both sticks should be moving in a fluid manor and reach these inputs with the timing of that fluidity. Fluidity of the sticks makes for a smooth flowing aircraft paterns and attitude.

I appologize for the jerky results of my earlier explaination.

Interesting point about liner thumb movement vs exponential radio settings.


_____________________________

Life is short. Fly hard and enjoy.
Bud Wilkinson, RC-Xplanes, www.rcxplanes.com

(in reply to pizza)
       Post #: 82

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/31/2004 3:23:30 PM   
Italian-flyer-delete


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 1/4/2004
From:
Status: offline 		Hi people

THIS TOPIC IS NOT FOR THOSE WHO SAY: "PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE"

Our slogan is: "LEARNING 3D STEP BY STEP" with intelligence and fun.

THIS TOPIC IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE INTERESTING

"Errol98" AND "Pizza" are trying to help us 3D flying beginners and we thank a lot them

Pizza, you said: "the key to hovering is trimming the plane for 3D"

Which is the right trimming?

Vittorio from Italy a beautiful country

(in reply to RCXPLANES)
       Post #: 83

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/31/2004 3:50:41 PM   
Ian.W



Posts: 4286
Joined: 6/22/2003
From: Essex, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		a plane needs to be well balanced to hover, any lateral inbalance will make you job allot harder. A rearward CG make it easyer to hover aswell.

Ian

_____________________________

Ian Watson
Team Flightpower

(in reply to Italian-flyer-delete)
       Post #: 84

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/31/2004 3:58:35 PM   
adrian-RCU



Posts: 1686
Joined: 10/27/2002
From: tel avivna, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		still pure crap - but the ferrari can stay and maybe some pizza - wake up on this, crap!!!!!

_____________________________

TEAM"SHALAT RACHOK" Israel

(in reply to Ian.W)
       Post #: 85

RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/31/2004 4:52:21 PM   
Shahid



Posts: 1521
Joined: 12/30/2003
From: London, US MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
Status: offline 		Leanardo Davinchi father of planes?

No offense but you better check that one.

There was no real "father". Even the Wright brothers took previous theories and work and improved on them before they achieved flight.

_____________________________

Fly hard, but crash gracefully

(in reply to RCXPLANES)
       Post #: 86

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/31/2004 4:59:48 PM   
Italian-flyer-delete


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 1/4/2004
From:
Status: offline 		Hi people

THIS TOPIC IS NOT FOR THOSE WHO SAY: "PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE"

Our slogan is: "LEARNING 3D STEP BY STEP" with intelligence and fun.

THIS TOPIC IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE INTERESTING

In reply to "Adrian - RCU": Instead of say crap, try to say something intelligent

Vittorio from Italy a beautiful country

(in reply to adrian-RCU)
       Post #: 87

RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/31/2004 5:20:56 PM   
AcroJo



Posts: 2279
Joined: 1/25/2003
From: Clarks Summit, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Yes Zep, Through his drawings and ideas it did earn him the moniker "Father of Flight". Altho this post is entailing 3D, it is on a simulator. Wouldn't it be better recieved in the simulator catagory? Joe

_____________________________

Stranger in a strange place.

(in reply to Shahid)
       Post #: 88

RE: RE: www.Learning 3D step by step - 1/31/2004 5:22:24 PM   
Italian-flyer-delete


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 1/4/2004
From:
Status: offline 		Hi people

THIS TOPIC IS NOT FOR THOSE WHO SAY: "PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE"

Our slogan is: "LEARNING 3D STEP BY STEP" with intelligence and fun.

THIS TOPIC IS BECOMING MORE AND MORE INTERESTING

In reply to "ZepPilot": learn to write well: LEONARDO DA VINCI, the man who did the first studies of aerodynamics.


Vittorio from Italy a beautiful country

(in reply to Italian-flyer-delete)
       Post #: 89