"Mid-Engine" P39  
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"Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/26/2004 2:49:51 PM   
Mike West


 

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Call me crazy, but has anyone tried to install the engine to a P39 in its original location behind the cockpit?

I realize this causes problems with cooling, CG and an extended drive shaft, but one could build a more scale-like model doing so.

Feedback please.
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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/26/2004 3:16:28 PM   
F4u5



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A friend of mine tried it about 10 years ago. Took around 11 or 12 pounds of noseweight to balance. It was a 102 inch model. Crashed on second flight. I know of 2 guys that tried to do it back in the 80/90's for race P-39's. Both crashed. Tuff to replace the noseweight of that accessory housing on the real one. Seems like it just makes for a heavy sled on a model

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/26/2004 11:58:22 PM   
Jim Finn



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Could do it with electric I bet. Insatalling battery pack forward of the engine to balance the aircraft. Balance is not a problem with electric because we never add ballast, just move the battery pack. I have Top Flight kit of this plane and plan to make it electric but had not thought to put the motor in the scale location of the engine. HHmmmm..

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/27/2004 12:06:43 AM   
Flak


 

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Jim Finn,
I suggest you either make removable panels in the fuselage around the engine for display purposes or make that part of the P-39 with clear panels. This way no one can say, "BS!" Good luck to you both.
"Keep 'Em Flying!"
Flak

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/27/2004 12:11:52 AM   
FHHuber



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For the long drive shaft... look at boat drive parts. there's the universal joint to go between motor (or engine) and the shaft... a brass bearing tube and the threads on the shaft (and a hole for a stop pin) al pre-done for you.

Might want to make an oil feed for it of some sort if driving it from a glow engine... its intended to be cooled and lubed by the water being drawn up via capilary action. (Just greasing well wth Lith base axle grease for the electric should do it.) maybe have a pressure tap lowon the muffler so drips of oily fuel residue will be in the line.. run it ti a T fitting on the shaft housing (some have the fitting already)

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/27/2004 6:45:40 AM   
Teachu2


 

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Seems like a lot of extra work if you're going electric - kinda defeats the "scale" engine placement aspect. Then again, if that's the challange that you're lookinf for - have a ball!

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/27/2004 7:19:47 AM   
scale dail


 

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I have a Top Flight P-39 and am thinking of puting one of those weird looking RCV engines in it so i wont have the engine stiking out and can put the nose gear way up front where it belongs but mid-engine?hmmmm.

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/27/2004 6:01:22 PM   
Doug D.


 

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Hey Scale dail ! Have you been to RCV's web site lately? Some one has done that with the TF P-39 already. Looks pretty good to.
www.rcvengines.com Go to photo gallery in the .90 section. Lot of other stuff showing up there now.

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/28/2004 12:25:58 AM   
Flak


 

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Scale Dail, Doug D,
I have a T/F P-39 with all the bells and whistles waiting to be glassed and painted. I was going to buy an RCV 90 until I read all of the problems with the over heating of these engines inside an enclosed cowl. You may want to check out the information before you pay a lot of money for something that may not work. I like scale looks, but I don't want to lose my aircraft.
"Keep 'Em Flying!"
Flak

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/28/2004 5:55:41 AM   
FHHuber



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Overheating can happen to any engine n an enclosed cowl.. its improper routing of airflow, not the engine.

The RCV is shaped different and the airflow requirements are different from a "conventional" engine. Direct the air correctly and it will stay cool.

Also... for every square inch of air inlet... you need 3 square inches of air outlet. Less outlet means you will just ram air into the cowl and not be able to get it out (you can cause overheating in a case where the outlet is adequate if the inlet is too large!). More outlet won't hurt... but may cause an appearance problem.

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/28/2004 10:24:42 PM   
Cactus999


 

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IMHO most warbirds are already tail heavy, why make situation even worse. About the electric idea. Why should you swap bateries and motor? electric motors are small, and round, whats most important , will fit anywhere. Fiting electric one behind cockpit will make you to build complex drive shaft (well, same for glow engine), and in case of accident this shaft will make way more mess than instalation in cowl. In my opinion, only option is electric, if you dont want to cut cowl too much, as most cooling is reqired for batery and esc, not motor. Even if using RCV, reasonable cooling outlet is needed, so many holes in nose.

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/29/2004 7:59:36 PM   
scale dail


 

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Thanks for the info! im still in the planing stages.

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/30/2004 9:43:17 AM   
rrudytoo



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I know up front that this idea is cumbersome but see what you think. What if a marine-type engine with a water-cooled head was used? An extra tank with the cooling water could be mounted up front to provide ballast. This would be heavy, of course, but would it be workable?

The driveshaft could be hooked up directly to the crankshaft of the engine then a 2:1 gear reduction box in the nose to which the prop would be attached. That would allow a large, scale-like prop to be used at reduced prop speed. Just a few thoughts.

Al

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 1/30/2004 5:13:42 PM   
Cactus999


 

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Once i was thinking about using arine engine. thing is, that most marine engines are heavier than aircraft ones, mostly becouse worse situation with cooling. Altho water cooled head works efectively, but whole engine cranccase must be heavier, to withstand thermal shocks at hi rpm. So thats heavier engine part. Next goes cooling system. youll probably need quite big surface radiator (much bigger than surface of regular air engine, due to indirect cooling). next isue coolant pump, tank, batery. I beleive this will ad aditional few pounds, to few pounds of gearbox, cardan shaft etc. Its not that dificult to cool engine inside enclosed fuse. With help of simple duct made from cardboard or balsa, you can guide loads of air thru fins with help of fan, whitch can be belt, or direct driven with engine itself. Electric cooler seems more realible, as wont face probs when taxing, but its failure will mean that engine will oveheat, so i would go fan driven from engine, as most early hellis had, and such as now used on some rc cars.
I think ist not worth to play with water cooling, as more critical parts ur system includes, more chances something fails. Theres some plans avialible with planes that have engines inside fuses (pusher planes). I think you might suceed instaling engine in center fuse, but this will make you put all hte rest stuff in nose to keep plane light. TF aircobra is just bit to small to fit more advanced things like liwquid cooling, gearboxes etc. It would make it either too complex, either too unrialible, and in any case very heavy.

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RE: "Mid-Engine" P39 - 2/3/2004 6:49:03 PM   
mohuff


 

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I have been in the planning stages to put an RCV-90 in the back of a P-39. I was told by the guy at the local hobby shop that what I had in mind couldnt be done, so I bought the airplane. I just got the landing gear and will start on the wings soon. What I need, if anyone knows of any, are pictures of the underside showing any and all details. I am trying to make this as accurate as possible with my limited skills. Detailed photos will give me my options on how to cool this engine. Once I start engine installation, I will post pics and details of my project in the works and before and after photos of my first crash flight, lol. As far as I know this has not been done yet.

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