RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrollers - HELP  
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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 4/19/2004 1:09 AM   
Spaceclam



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From: chatsworth, CA, USA
Status: offline 		yes, it will, depending on your design. by accident, mine ended up with a relatively high cg, about two inches below the rotor disk so wind will flip it without a gyro, unless i fight it really hard. the lower your cg, the less of an effect that will have.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 4/19/2004 2:01 AM   
scubyfan


 

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Status: offline 		Oh, I see. So since it's so much easier to maintain RPM - and thus constant thrust on all four corners - with electric motors, you encountered no other problems in getting your DraganFlyer-like craft (for the lack of a better word ) to hover without external control in situations with no wind? I am thinking about trying my hand at something similar, thus all the questions!

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 4/19/2004 4:17 AM   
Spaceclam



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Status: offline 		it can still be tough. these cheaper brushed motors will sometimes jump, or you will get a little bit of a wierd signal or something, a bit of a glitch and it will want to scoot around. tipping is not a real problem with no wind but it will not stay straight up, at least not with my design. i dont have a good way of holding the antenna away from any high drain wires while not using a large antenna sticking up which causes it to be unstable.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 4/19/2004 6:16 PM   
danvel



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From: Zaragoza, SPAIN
Status: offline 		I've ordered SPEED 300 @7,2V motors but the only gearbox I've found (ROBBE 5:1) has an output shaft of 8mm diameter.
Can I use this with the 10x4,5 props?. If not, where can I find the GWS 5.33:1 gearboxes?

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 4/20/2004 12:36 AM   
Spaceclam



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Status: offline 		uhh, 8mm is huge. that is the normal shaft size for some gas engines. most electrics are 3mm. the gws gearboxes will suit you fine, but i dont know where to get them in spain.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 4/23/2004 8:09 PM   
scot_bones


 

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From: non, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Can any one sugest Cheap replacements for Draganflyer blades please?
Where is the best place to purchase or are there alternatives?

I am in the UK

Is it possible to make them in any way?


Thanks in advance

scot_bones@yahoo.co.uk




DRAGANFLYERS DO IT IN FOURS

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 4/24/2004 12:41 AM   
Spaceclam



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Status: offline 		i dont know where to get them in the uk but spectrolutions sells them for about $20 for a set of 4. be warned though, they do not work right at rpms above 1000. they will go into negative pitch and loose most of their lift. if you are trying to maek your own and plan on having a higher gear ratio, you will haveto look at the toddsmodels props. however again that would require international shipping. in all my research i have not found a single place in the uk that has those things.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/27/2004 8:36 PM   
thinkbox


 

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Status: offline 		Here are some pics of my flyer.
version 1



version 1 trying to take off 14 oz battery is too heavy.



version 2 with IRate 2600-2S 4 oz


its still work in progress

ViTaL

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/27/2004 9:49 PM   
scubyfan


 

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Status: offline 		Are you using any gyros for stability?

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/28/2004 5:59 AM   
Spaceclam



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Status: offline 		you may have some stability issues. your battery is very close to your rotor disks. that will make the cg very high as the battery will most likely be your heaviest single component. move it as far down as you can or you will be constantly on the sticks just trying to keep it level. remember, the motors are not identical (even if they are the same model) and there are little variations and stuff. even just the wind from you walking by could make that thing flip over. i had a design much like that originally but now my cg is much farther down and it flies a ton better. unfortunatly, my battery is fried and my motors are not mounted as i completely redid the top half of this craft and i am busy working on my new yak 54, which kinda takes priority. i will get this thing up and going as soon as i can.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/28/2004 2:23 PM   
Pipefish



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From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		When I saw for the first time this forum I doubt about the effectiveness of building a home made Draganfly, but you guys (Spaceclam, ADI, apulmax69, mdream, littlefreak, danvel, thinkbox, etc.) made me change this idea.
CONGRATULATIONS FOR YOU ALL! Besides, the coolest thing about it all is that none of you are from the same city; what makes me think (as a genuine Brazilian) that I can cooperate with you.
Here in Brasil we have so few access to all that you have there that I had to pay near 3 X the price of the original Draganfly IV to have it. Besides the distance from my city (Curitiba - south of Brasil, near Argentina) to Saskatoon (Canada) to have my replacement parts would force me to wait near a MONTH to receive a normal shipment order.

That´s why I had to over study about HOW THE DAMN DF BLADES work! How to make them by ourselves, their behavior, color schemes, etc...
If anyone of you want me to cooperate on making them (including some mods to improve performance and maneuverability) I´ll be very much glad to help on this "Intercontinental" effort to do a decent alternative to this over expensive cool flying machine.
Sorry for my poor english. We talk portuguese here.

Best Regards to all!









A dream, dreamed for one person, is just a dream. A dream, dreamed for many, turns to be reality.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/28/2004 3:13 PM   
Spaceclam



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Status: offline 		a quick question
Pipefish, your english is not too bad at all. good times. However, i am curious. Can you make blades that look almost identical to the ones gws sells (common electric blades) but in a counter rotating set for a 3mm shaft?

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/28/2004 5:32 PM   
Pipefish



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From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		Spaceclam, if I had to do one I´ll do like this: take one (original size) take a picture of it and mirror it on a software like Corel Draw.
After this I´ll print it and mold it into a 2mm Expanded PVC or in a 1mm aluminum. Later I´d cut it in a 1mm Expanded PVC and mold it with a blower.
These procedures comprehend that the first ones would be bad looking or shaping and (for certain) with time I´ll make them better and better.
Do I make myself clear? It´s like a painting of a face, the first ones are just a scrapbook, with times (and tries) it comes better and better.
However, by my experiences Expanded PVC is the best material I ever saw for modeling (by far).

Best regards.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/28/2004 5:34 PM   
Pipefish



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From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		Almost forgot that I´m having preliminar testing and designing of a 3 blade for the DF.

Regards.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/28/2004 6:37 PM   
zarx


 

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Status: offline 		Danvel

It's nice to see a familiar method here. My flyer is based on a motorola HC11 as well! Im wondering, what are you using for your motor outputs. Are you using a D/A converter, or are you using the built in PWM circuitry?

Also, have you looked into surface mount Gyros?

thanks

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/28/2004 7:27 PM   
thinkbox


 

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Status: offline 		Pipefish this is a page that I found that tells you how to make the blades from sheet plastic
http://www.waltercedric.com/Helico/roswell/clones.htm
I haven't tried it yet I bought blades from http://www.airdyn.com/roswell/parts.htm
but they don't provide enough lift on my setup:

motors: http://www.balsapr.com/catalog/motors/EPS280View.asp?ProductId=gws018
battery: http://www.lightflightrc.com/HTML/products/2600-2S.htm

right now i'm using my micro rs4 radio and 1 speed controller pluged into all 4 motors giving them same power.

I don't get enough lift with Roswell Props, EPS 280-C, 5.33 gear, all 4 motors draw like 8.5 amps
I also bought toddsmodels 10x4.5 Counter Rotating Props, on my setup these props draw under 5 amps and create even less lift that roswell props.

in desparete attempt to get my flyer to fly I cutup some floppy disks and used plastic from them to create extensions to rosswell props which i duck taped to the ends of ross props.

It somewhat flies very instable.

Spaceclam I will take your advice and lower my cg.

I think I have a problem because my EPS 280-C spins my props way slower than your EPS-300C-C but you draw 32 amps
at those amps what are your flight times?

I tried EPS 280-C motors because I was trying to go for 10-15 min flight times.

I can't wait to get it all right.

I have BASIC Stamp 2p module and pwmpal I bought 1 hobby gyro (will have to buy 2 more or figure out how to connect tokin ic gyros that vary voltage as a function to my basic stamp "ADC?") I'm somewhat new to all of this and i'm not an electrical engeneer like ADI.
I'm building a curcuit board for the flier
pwmpal connected to 4 MOSFETs and 4 diodes to motor.
I think thats what I need to safely drive speed control my 4 motors from ic pwm.

some more flyer links:

http://www.nyblimp.com/roswell/others.htm

http://216.239.51.104/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fww2.michaelshantz.com%3A8001%2Fhomepage%2Fflyers%2FPCBflyer%2FPCBflyer.html (get this one while you can)

http://gizmocopter.org/elj-contest-200108/

Good luck to all who try to build a dragonflyer.

ViTaL

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/28/2004 7:41 PM   
thinkbox


 

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Status: offline 		I almost forgot
I just bought airtronins RD6000 $250 radio for $175 that is on sale for a limited time on
http://www.airtronics.net/rd6000_sale_1.htm
I searched high and low for the best deal I think this is it.
plus 2 extra channels can be used to implement other cool features.

ViTaL

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/28/2004 11:50 PM   
Pipefish



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From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		No, I´m very "green" on electronics. For now I´m just changing the parts of my original DF.
Regards.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/28/2004 11:56 PM   
Pipefish



Posts: 194
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From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		Hey Vital,
As far as I can see, you´re mastering the electrinics for your model. Taking plastics from diskettes is a very desperate solution huh? Hehe.
What about try "PLASTEX", they seem to be very good on it (although, very expensive).
Thank´s A LOT for the links.
What about us all join the best solutions and build one "padronized" model?
Best Regards for all.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/29/2004 12:01 AM   
Pipefish



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From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		Here in Brazil we use some different range of radio signals. The signal of the original DF is 11,4 by this I can only use the original TX and not my Futaba 8UHP that I use in my Raptor 30.
Regards.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/29/2004 10:02 AM   
zarx


 

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Status: offline 		pipefish,

your flyer...is it based on mixers or a CPU?

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/29/2004 2:55 PM   
Pipefish



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From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		If you mean if it´s controlled by a CPU, no, it´s not. Only TX to RX and gyro piezos helping the control.
Best wishes.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/29/2004 5:11 PM   
Spaceclam



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Status: offline 		what transmitter do you have? i did not have enough mixers even on my 8u to do that. i got everything but yaw control, but it turns out i really needed it.

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/29/2004 7:51 PM   
Pipefish



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From: CuritibaParanᬠBRAZIL
Status: offline 		The Futaba Skysport 4ch (for DF) and the Futaba T8UHP for the Raptor

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RE: Building a DraganFlyer - need to mix speedcontrolle... - 5/29/2004 7:59 PM   
Spaceclam



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Status: offline 		pipefish, you know you will not be able to fly it with jsut the transmiter. you need something to mix the signals so that the motors will work corectly together and control imputs will accomplish what you need them to

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