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Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/4/2004 2:19 PM   
Baelzebob


 

Posts: 11
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Last Login: 9/27/2008
From: North Royalton, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Hello,

First post to this forum and RCU... I have been building and flying for some time now, have built 5 kits, Goldberg Eagle, Goldberg Cub, Great Planes Mustang .40, SIG Mid-star .40 (two of these), SIG Four-Star .60 (with a .75 in it and mixed flaps). I can fly them all passably well and most often than not, use the plane another day without repair. I have a Futaba 9CH (I have a Century Hawk Sport that I fly/crash)

I am considering the plunge into scale and like the TF FW 190 .60 size for the all around looks, and relative inexpensiveness of the required equip combination(retracts, no super servos, etc.). Plus, I understand it is a decent flyer, can build reasonably light and has reasonable wing area and tail moment.

Any thoughts on me building this kit, based on my above experience or lack thereof? I was pricing on Tower and found that the overall cost will easily exceed $1,000-$1,200.

I am considering glassing it... never glassed a model before... any thoughts on this? What to watch for, weight concerns, any "systems" out there for glassing models? Preferred vendors? I don't mind the time as long as it looks good and adds strength without a TON of weight.

I would like to put an OS .91 II Surpass (no pump) in it... any thoughts on this motor and the motor/kit combination? Good Power? Important - Will it fit 90% inside the cowl (I don't mind a little protrusion, but am tired of planes with engines sticking out all over)? Are there any exhaust pipes recomennded? I would like this as I like the sound, it can swing a larger prop at a slower speed, and I have used a .50 Saito in the Mid-Star .40 with good results. Also, they don't seem to spit a ton of oil and fuel all over the model like my Four Star .75 does.

The kit is designed for the Century Jet Retracts... how are they working out for other builders? They look OK, but I like the COMPLETENESS of them at the price. I had considerted Spring Air Retracts, and though the fail safe spring actuated down position sounds GREAT, I understand the down movement cannot be speed controlled as there is only a one sided air system (maybe the retriction on the retract side works both ways?) - plus it doesn't look like they come with Oleos and the web site sucks... don't know how complete a sytem they are. Would pay the price if they fit my needs.

Thanks for your help in advance...

Baelzebob

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/4/2004 6:06 PM   
Doug D.


 

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From: Wilson, NC, USA
Status: offline 		I haven't built this TF model, But I have built several others. They all build about the same. Yes your cost can escalate pretty quick if you buy eveything at once. Try to spread it out a littlle, say 3 or 4 months.
Spring air retracts are pretty decent. I've never heard anything really bad about there systems. The CJ are pretty decent as well. But not not everyone likes them. I have them in a spitfire and they seem to be working very good for me.
You'll have to ask around and pickup some books about fiberglassing. I've done it but I recommend books because you can always reference back to them as your working. If you don't understand something then go out and ask.
You could monokote the model if you think you can duplicate the scheme that you want or you can try and paint the monokote. Yes it been done and it will work.
Sort things out as you go. No need to decide on everthing at once.
Hope I've helped a little !!!


< Message edited by Doug D. -- 2/4/2004 6:13:28 PM >

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/4/2004 6:22 PM   
Putz Brother



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From: any city, WY, USA
Status: offline 		Baelzebob, Don't have any experience with this kit, however there was a person that said the cowl was'nt very scale on one of the threads. I have built the Pica version of the D9, I to used the CJ retracts. Had a tough time getting them to fit the depth of the wing [top to botom]. I love the West Systems resins and their .06 clothe. I don't think that is enough engine for the plane. Glassed mine came in at about 13lbs and these planes don't have alot of wing area. You may want to look at a good 90 two stroke. There alot of opinions on how to glass but I learned my meathod from a profesional builder that actualy makes a living doing this. I just use one coat of resin and squegee it of untill it appears dull. When dry sand on any shiney spots you see with 120 grit and then sand the entire plane with 220, then fill the weave by spooging on a layer of bondo spot filler. This stuff is cheap, about six bucks for a large tube. Then sand it down to the glass. Have shown this meathod to several people and they all swear by it now. Building scale can be very rewarding, but it can also be frustrating. Be patient Oh and when sanding, be carefull not to cut through the clothe. You just need to sand the resin. Remeber if it's not a hassel, it's not scale. Scale Rules

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/4/2004 8:38 PM   
Putz Brother



Posts: 223
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From: any city, WY, USA
Status: offline 		Also just checked on RC Groups site and if you go to the scale aircraft section of discussion there is a guy that is building the T/F 190D9. Does'nt sound to impressed, but it may just be his mood. Anyway worth checking out. I'v built six T/F kits and they do have some problems but I hav'nt built a kit that did'nt. Make sure you sit down and read the instuctions from front to back before tackeling it. There are always changes to the instructions that are stapled to the front of them be certain that you make these changes in the actual manuel itself. I would also suggest you stick with a white glue. I like the Pica HD601 from the hobby shop. The reason is if you make a mistake you still have some time to remove a part before the glue dries, unlike CA. But it does'nt take as much tiime to dry as something like a woodworkers glue. Plus you don't spend the entire building procress picking the dried CA off your fingers, this stuff cleans up with water. I love to see people get into scale, but remember be patient after all if it's not a hassel, it's not scale. Scale Rules Aka Puff Daddy

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/4/2004 11:40 PM   
Wulfman



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From: Goodyear, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Baelzebob ,

I've built one of these. I enjoyed building the model, I thought the engineering was good, and it went together pretty easy. With the kit experience you have, I don't think you'll have any trouble. From what I've heard, the only other Top Flight warbird that matches the FW's flight performance is the T-Bolt.

I used the Spring Air gear in mine, I like them. Ultra Precision makes a control valve for the Spring Air gear. It will allow you to control the leak down rate for the gear to keep them from "popping-open" when extending the gear. They will not come down in a scale fashion, they will just kind of fall open. The retract speed can be controlled, and the gear will come up nice and slow.

The plastic parts are not the most scale looking. You will need to get a little creative if you want it to look more scale.

If you want to join in on a discussion topic of a 1/4 scale FW190D-9 build go here: http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=574&PN=1

Steve

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/5/2004 5:54 AM   
Darren40


 

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From: Kitimat, BC, CANADA
Status: offline 		If you choose to go with the TF FW190D-9, Wulfman sells parts to improve its scale appearance. I'd suggest you check out www.skyshark.com. They offer a 59" span FW190D-9 and FW190A-8 which the OS 91 Surpass will pull with authority. I've got three TF warbirds (but not the FW) and am building a Skyshark Aichi Val. The Skyshark kits build much lighter than the TF kits and, from everything I've seen posted, fly very well. There are several construction threads on Skyshark kits on www.rcscalebuilder.com and a UK site. Although they're a bit more money, its small when you consider how much the total investment will be. The Skyshark kits also include detailed cockpits. The one advantage I'd say TF has is that the instructions are more friendly to the less-experienced builder. However, in your case, you'd have no problem with the Skyshark kits.
Also, check out information on glassing with PolyCrylic by Minwax. This method is reportedly lighter than the resin or epoxy over .6oz cloth we've used in the past, and much easier to work with.
Once you go scale, you'll wonder why anyone would build anything else.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/5/2004 9:17 AM   
Wulfman



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From: Goodyear, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Well, actually, I'm not making the parts anymore.

I agree with Darren40, that you should take a look at the Skyshark kits.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/5/2004 3:10 PM   
Richard L.



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From: Redmond, WA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Baelzebob

I would like to put an OS .91 II Surpass (no pump) in it... any thoughts on this motor and the motor/kit combination? Good Power? Important - Will it fit 90% inside the cowl (I don't mind a little protrusion, but am tired of planes with engines sticking out all over)?

The kit is designed for the Century Jet Retracts... how are they working out for other builders? They look OK, but I like the COMPLETENESS of them at the price. I had considerted Spring Air Retracts, and though the fail safe spring actuated down position sounds GREAT, I understand the down movement cannot be speed controlled as there is only a one sided air system (maybe the retriction on the retract side works both ways?) - plus it doesn't look like they come with Oleos and the web site sucks... don't know how complete a sytem they are.


An OS .91 might be sufficient if you keep the plane light, such as around 10 lbs. The valve cover will stick outside the cowl. A YS .91FZ will provide more than enough power up to 12 lbs. I will be using a YS 110 in mine.

Spring Air oleo struts look great, and their newer 700 series and 800 series retracts are bored out to accept their oleo struts. Plus, their 800 series have air going both ways, so the speed of the down movement can be controlled if I'm not mistaken.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/5/2004 10:03 PM   
randocommando



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From: Brandon, FL, USA
Status: offline 		I built a Pica FW190D and it came in at 10lbs. I use an MDS .68 for power and it is more than enough engine to pull thhis model with authority. I glaased mine with .6 glass and epoxy resin, I airbrushed the model with model master paint and used a flat sealer to fuel proof it. This Fw190 flys like it is on a rail and i am very pleased with it.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/6/2004 12:26 AM   
Baelzebob


 

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From: North Royalton, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the great responses. Now I am wondering if the TF is the right one to get... seems to have a few issues. The SkyShark kits look OK, but seems a bit smaller and no flaps... I want flaps, but am not a scratch builder.

Can the PICA fiberglass parts be used on the TF model? They say they are both 1/6 scale , I believe. Is there a fiberglass parts maker for the 1/6 FW 190 D9?

How is the PICA kit? Is it that much better than the TF? It seems in almost all respects to be a 1:1 comparison (size, engine choices, retract install, wingspan)... Is it more scale than the TF? Same or better quality? Does it build lighter? How is building.. need special skills/ability? Its a good bit more expensive. And I am hoping for a model that I will enjoy flying, not one that will require a moment to re-compose myself after each landing.

I suppose I would like a bigger kit if only for wing loading issues, but don't want to add the $3-500 additional that will cost in kit/engines/retracts/servos that that would entail.

I really like the concept of the Spring Air fail-safe feature. Do they come with struts in the package or are they separate? The website says they "come complete" what the heck does that mean? Do they come with air line, tank, valves, t-fittings, OLEOS, etc? I've never had retracts before and like to know what I am getting into.

I like the TF for the instructions... I can look for opportunities to build it light as possible.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/6/2004 12:57 AM   
Richard L.



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Status: offline 		The Pica parts are more scale than the TF parts, especially the cowl, exhaust outlets, and gun hood. The Pica cowl is more rounded whereas the TF cowl is more square. The Pica cowl is slightly too small for the TF kit, but people were able to get the Pica cowl to fit. The TF gun hood doesn't look good at all. You can get fiberglass replacement parts from Stans' Fiber Tech.

As for Spring Air retracts, they come with air tank, air lines, control valve, T-fittings, and filler valve. You would need to purchase the variable air control valve and oleo struts separately.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/7/2004 10:56 PM   
Baelzebob


 

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Joined: 2/2/2004
Last Login: 9/27/2008
From: North Royalton, OH, USA
Status: offline 		I quit dithering after much research on-line. I placed an order for the TF FW 190 D9 and miscellaneous equipment to include the Century Jet retracts. I also picked up locally a Super Tigre G75 and a Bisson pitts style muffler as I do not wantto mount he engine inverted. Should be showing up next week.

My wife is gonna crap when she sees the boxes on the step. Just need to keep the price tag out of sight. ouch. hope this thing builds nice, I am in no rush and want to do a good job. still thinking hard about glassing it.

Thanks for all the info, links and comments about your experiences. I'll try and keep you informed of my impressions from a newbie to scale point of view.

Thanks again,

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/23/2004 3:48 AM   
Baelzebob


 

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From: North Royalton, OH, USA
Status: offline 		Picked it up... stab, fin complete, mounted to fuse, getting ready to sheet upper fuse. Made a few small, correctable mistakes, nothing major. Seems like a good kit, definitely putting some $$ into it and haven't even picked up the radio/servo gear yet (plan on using my FUT 9C).

Went with the Century retracts, Super Tigre .75. I am planning on glassing it, a first for me. Looking forward every day to doing more work on it. Love to build.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/26/2004 11:20 PM   
Javier-RCU



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From: Miami, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Take a look at http://www.top-flite.com/reviews/topa0150-rcm.html

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/27/2004 1:32 AM   
TomCrump



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Status: offline 		Steve is "The Man" when it comes to theD9!
quote:

ORIGINAL: Javier-RCU

Take a look at http://www.top-flite.com/reviews/topa0150-rcm.html


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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/27/2004 6:14 PM   
Wulfman



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From: Goodyear, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, Tom! It was nice of you to say that.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/28/2004 1:20 AM   
Sarah



Posts: 167
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From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Just to make you jealous, I've got some of Wulfmans parts he used to make, they sure are an improvement over the original parts.

Hi Wulfman, sorry I didn't send them, lost your e-mail address, but do you still want the pictures of the FW 190 which is at the Imperial War museum?

They are mostly detailed shots.


Regards,

Sarah

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/28/2004 7:11 PM   
Wulfman



Posts: 239
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From: Goodyear, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Sarah,

Absolutely, please send pics! My email is: wulfman@cox.net

Send pics of your Top Flite D-9 too!

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/28/2004 7:36 PM   
foxx


 

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From: Somewhere in the west, USA
Status: offline 		I built a PICA, they are good fliers but a bit outdate in kit design. The vertical fin is not scale. I agree the Topflite is a better choice. I initially had decided to put a set of Century retracts in mine, but after they arrived and one look they were sent back immedately. I have spring air , for struts I think robart might have good ones. I was lucky to get a set of Steve's scale accessories before he quit making them.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 2/29/2004 12:17 PM   
Wulfman



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From: Goodyear, AZ, USA
Status: offline 		Hi foxx,

Did you get a chance to put the TF 190D-9 together? I'd like to see pics.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 3/1/2004 4:10 AM   
foxx


 

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From: Somewhere in the west, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Steve, I built a PICA not a Top flite. The Plane is finished and looks very nice, but right now we got so much snow that I can not take her out to take some decent pictures. I will post pics soon.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 3/2/2004 5:03 PM   
Sarah



Posts: 167
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From: Bristol, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Even without Wulfmans accesories, though they certainly make life a lot easier, the TF FW-190 can be made to look very good. I have seen a few where flyers have made their own parts to make the model more scale like. Don't be too worried if your home made parts don't look perfect as the original was not a super sleek fitted aircraft. Below are two photo's of a full size FW-190 and you can see that the gun hood and cannon access covers don't actually fit that well. I am building the TF FW-190 and when I get a little further I'll post some photo's on the board.

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< Message edited by Sarah -- 3/2/2004 5:04:31 PM >

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 3/2/2004 5:25 PM   
foxx


 

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Status: offline 		Awesome pictures Sarah. Thanks, just keep them coming. I think most of these planes were pretty banged up after the war and put together as best as possible by the museum people. Who knows how they really looked liked fresh out of the factory.

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 3/2/2004 9:03 PM   
Putz Brother



Posts: 223
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From: any city, WY, USA
Status: offline 		Sarah, where is the 190D9 that you have posted pictures of. I'v seen the one in Phoenix, AZ USA and have seen pictures of the one in Dayton, OH USA. Thought those where the only two in existence. But you know how us Americans are, think we have everything. I am currently building a 1/5th scale Aerotech 190 D9 and have built the Pica. As far as the gun hood fitting not sure, but I took some measurements for another builder that has the T/F kit on the cowl. The Pica cowl diameter is fine but it is to short from front to back buy about 1".

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RE: Top Flite FW 190 D9 Equipment - 3/2/2004 9:12 PM   
foxx


 

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Status: offline 		Puff Daddy, I believe the one in Arizona is D13 not a D9.

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