RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what  
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All Forums >> RC Helicopters >> Electric RC Helis >> RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what
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RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/7/2004 2:57:42 AM   
Super-Hornet


 

Posts: 565
Joined: 1/13/2004
From: Earth, SINGAPORE
Status: offline 		Hi lawnhawk

I think some of us don't want to get into heated debate here. Some of you can order it (Cheaper on transportation fee) easily. So maybe can u order it and let us know how does it perform. BTW.. if the size ok.. should not have any problem. The RPM looks good except voltage rating too low but anyway it is cheap.

Super-Hornet

(in reply to lawnhawk)
       Post #: 26

RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/7/2004 3:17:52 AM   
lawnhawk



Posts: 198
Joined: 11/28/2003
From: McHenry, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Um.... anyone else?

I just asked if the motor I linked to is the same size as the tail rotor motor on the Hummingbird.

(in reply to Super-Hornet)
       Post #: 27

RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/7/2004 3:31:29 AM   
randii


 

Posts: 55
Joined: 1/11/2004
From: Fair Oaks, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Looking at the part number, it is an N20-chassis motor... that is the same size as the tail motor in the Hummingbird, Aerohawk, Piccolo, etc. From a BUNCH of searching I have done, I believe the N20 series motor to be inferior to the B2C or B2C2 motors. Do a quick search on B2C and N20 -- it'll shake loose a couple of posts where I have talked quite a bit about these motors. FWIW, there's also a few posts on running twin-N20s on one tail.

My guess, if you were to order up one of these N20s, is that you would find simple brass wipers inside instead of copper-sprung brush blocks. which is what you have in your HB. I'd guess that the N20 motor would burn out quickly if used as a tailmotor. In the end, the only way to know for sure is to order up one and give it a try...

Tailmotor on a mini-heli is a tough environment for any motor of this size, unless you run a high-frequency ESC. Even then, this application represents *heavy* usage, and none of these short, small-diameter oval-can motors seem to last very long, regardless of brand. Some last longer than other (the Hummingbird motor I installed last weekend is holding up nicely), and others last shorter than others (the stock Aerohawk tail motor seems pretty weak).

Hope that helps,

Randii

(in reply to lawnhawk)
       Post #: 28

RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/7/2004 12:33:25 PM   
lawnhawk



Posts: 198
Joined: 11/28/2003
From: McHenry, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Yes, thanks Randi, that's the kind of information I was looking for.

I'm not too concerned if it's not the exact same design, they're gonna burn out anyway. So, if I can burn them out at a fraction of the cost, it's all good.

It looks like from the posts at runryder that the bigger motor has already been proven for the main rotor. I am going to get a few of those, and maybe a couple of these little guys to try on the rudder.

Will keep you all posted unless someone beats me to it.

(in reply to randii)
       Post #: 29

RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/11/2004 2:21:32 AM   
jerbo6iks


 

Posts: 49
Joined: 12/28/2003
From: Richmond, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I sent an email to All electronics corp regarding Johnson model numbers etc for this motor and they responded that they have no further info on the motor beyond what they have on their web site. I did an extensive search of the Johnson Elecric site and could not find the exact motor based on dimensions and voltage. I will be getting 10 of these in the next couple of days. I need to rig up some assembly of those capacitors that can be easily connected as an assembly of sorts. I'll be damned if I'm going to solder the 3 things on each time since I'm a lously solderer!

(in reply to jerbo6iks)
       Post #: 30

RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/11/2004 3:32:52 AM   
Super-Hornet


 

Posts: 565
Joined: 1/13/2004
From: Earth, SINGAPORE
Status: offline 		Hi jerbo6iks

Thanks for your effort of trying to find the spec. Once u get those motor, maybe u can help us (those wanted to know) check for any manufacturing marking/symbols/serial.

As for the capacitors. I have one idea for u. Maybe u can soldered those capacitors separately into a PCB or just wired soldered. Then connect 3 wires to your motor (2 wires for the +ve and -ve point and one for motor chassis/ground)

Super-Hornet

(in reply to jerbo6iks)
       Post #: 31

RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/15/2004 9:38:25 PM   
jerbo6iks


 

Posts: 49
Joined: 12/28/2003
From: Richmond, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Just recieved my 10 motors. There is no serial number or other info on the motor other than what can be seen printed on the outside of the motor on that all electronics site larger picture http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=400&item=DCM-189&type=store. I did pop one of the motors open and it does have copper sprung brushes as opposed to finger brushes as mentioned earlier in this thread. I do not know if they are carbon or not. The blocks on the end of the copper springs seem a little silvery in color to be carbon but I wouldn't know since I have never popped one open before. I'm waiting on a pinion gear puller so I have not installed one.

(in reply to Super-Hornet)
       Post #: 32

RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/17/2004 8:17:18 PM   
RickyT63


 

Posts: 167
Joined: 12/22/2003
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Status: offline 		1st, thank you all for info/tips about Johnson250 motor.
I replaced stock motor (280) with J250 and noticed that it has much more torque than 280.
I have to increase mixer gain up ~ 30% with dd tail installed.

Both stock & 250 are using 10T.
Stock motor + dd tail : mixer gain set @ 0%
J250 motor + dd tail : mixer gain set @ 30%

Regards

(in reply to jerbo6iks)
       Post #: 33

RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/19/2004 1:34:05 AM   
cyclejerk


 

Posts: 173
Joined: 1/15/2004
From: Annapolis, MD, USA
Status: offline 		Darkside,
Thanks for the motor info! The lower voltage is no big deal, at that price if it burns up who cares. (as long as lasts for a while anyway, if it burned up after an hour that would be a prob). But your friend has much more than a hour on his. some motors run better with some added voltage! ROCK ON!

(in reply to jerbo6iks)
       Post #: 34

RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/19/2004 3:53:07 AM   
newbiehawk


 

Posts: 12
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Boston, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I purchased 12 of the tail motors from All Electronics:
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=400&item=DCM-166&type=store

I pulled one of them apart and compared it to my burnt out AeroHawk tail motor (see attached photo, AeroHawk stock motor on left, Mabuchi # FF-N20PN on right). From what I can see they are almost identical, including the two triple-pronged brass wipers for the commutator. I haven't run this motor yet on my heli, so I can't confirm how it performs. But it sure looks like a good (and cheap! ) replacement option for what appears to be a consumable for these birds.

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to Super-Hornet)
       Post #: 35

RE: RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/19/2004 5:15:03 AM   
dragon-dude



Posts: 153
Joined: 1/10/2004
From: Columbia Heights, MN, USA
Status: offline 		The major difference that you would not easily be able to tell is the number of windings in each of the armature/rotor. That will dictate how the motor is designed to run.

You could, however, use the old rotor if the commutators(the three copper faces on the rotor) do not look worn out...typically this part shoudl be good. Its the finger brushes that wear out usually.

Additionally you can use the old can also...

Talk about making a frienkenstien. :-)

the easy answer would be to test out the new motors and see if it works. Good ol trial-n-error seems to be the best way to do it. :-)

(in reply to newbiehawk)
       Post #: 36

RE: RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/19/2004 11:55:59 AM   
lawnhawk



Posts: 198
Joined: 11/28/2003
From: McHenry, IL, USA
Status: offline 		RickTran, did you use stock pinions or did you have to use a different shaft diameter pinion? Both the main and tail.

(in reply to dragon-dude)
       Post #: 37

RE: RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/19/2004 11:43:21 PM   
RickyT63


 

Posts: 167
Joined: 12/22/2003
From: San Jose, CA, USA
Status: offline 		LawnHawk,

I use Hummingbird stock 10T pinion for J250 main motor and it fits just fine. I only have to tap the mounting hole to fit 4-40 screws then solder 3 caps & power connector. For the tail, I use edp50xc direct drive motor.
Regards.

< Message edited by RickTran -- 2/19/2004 6:49:19 PM >

(in reply to lawnhawk)
       Post #: 38

RE: RE: OK, these motors just don't last - now what - 2/20/2004 1:50:55 AM   
jerbo6iks


 

Posts: 49
Joined: 12/28/2003
From: Richmond, VA, USA
Status: offline 		I wnet to home depot to look for a drill and tap set but forgot to bring the stock screw. The 4-40 set looked about right but I didn't want to buy it without being sure. What does 4-40 stand for? I really don't care if I use stock screw diameters, just something that works.

Thanks

(in reply to RickyT63)
       Post #: 39