RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is the preferred type?  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> RC Warbirds and Warplanes >> RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is the preferred type?
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[Poll]

2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is the preferred type?
2-Cycle because it costs less to purchase
  4% (5)
2-Cycle because it weighs less
  5% (6)
4-Cycle because of the sound it makes
  45% (49)
4-Cycle because it is more fuel efficient
  2% (3)
4-Cycle because it swings a larger propellor
  37% (40)
2-Cycle because it has less moving parts
  3% (4)


Total Votes : 107
(last vote on : 8/10/2008 12:41:02 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is ... - 2/8/2004 3:52:34 AM   
Kmot



Posts: 7743
Joined: 6/11/2003
From: Northridge, CA, USA
Status: offline 		mugenkidd, another excellent point about the 2 vs 4. You are absolutely right, in that when a kit is listed as a 60 to 90 they say .60 two stroke or a .90 four stroke. I think that is what I had in the back of my mind when I added that to the poll. Surely a .60 two stroke weighs less than a .90 four stroke?

But still, the fact that for equal displcements, a four stroke weighing less than a two stroke is a significant acheivment in my way of thinking.

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RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is ... - 2/8/2004 5:42:01 AM   
CorsairJock



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From: Parchment, MI, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kmot

mugenkidd, another excellent point about the 2 vs 4. You are absolutely right, in that when a kit is listed as a 60 to 90 they say .60 two stroke or a .90 four stroke. I think that is what I had in the back of my mind when I added that to the poll. Surely a .60 two stroke weighs less than a .90 four stroke?

But still, the fact that for equal displcements, a four stroke weighing less than a two stroke is a significant acheivment in my way of thinking.


I have not run the .40 yet. Saito claims it will swing a 11 x 6 with ease. I HAVE run the Saito .30. Saito claims it will swing a 10 x 6 at 10,000 RPM. They also say it is the .30 that thinks it's a .40. I have found both to be true, using 15% nitro, 19% oil fuel. I now have an 11 x 5 on it (the .30, try THAT with your 2 stroke .25 ), and it makes my 3 lb, 10 oz. Cub leap off the ground in a few feet, and from there it will nearly go vertical. It will hold knife edge flight. The old addage that 4 strokes are vastly inferior to 2 strokes when compared on an equal displacement basis are no longer true. The YS .63 is a 4 stroke that will outperform many .60 2 strokes.
Then there is the Saito .72 which I mentioned that is in my Corsair: this is a kit which calls for a 2 stroke .60 (minimum). And while I don't claim my .72 is as strong as a .72 2 stroke would be, it is not that far off either.
Many of todays kits were designed at a time when there WAS a substantial difference in power between 2 strokes and 4 strokes. Those days are gone.

< Message edited by CorsairJock -- 2/8/2004 12:46:22 AM >

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RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is ... - 2/8/2004 12:46:49 PM   
rc34074


 

Posts: 851
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From: lexington, OH, USA
Status: offline 		phread59- thanks for your comments. i just used the 14-8 because that is what the other saito users at my field suggested. with this prop, after breakin, i got about 94-9500 on the ground. this seemed ok to me but then i am used to 2 strokes and the st90 turns above this- mine run close to 11,000 on the ground with a 14-6 apc. the st also clearly unloads to a much higher rpm in the air than the saito. its a bit hard to tell rpm in the air but i can tell the speed of the plane when i am doing strafing runs down the runway. i never tried a higher pitch prop such as a 14-10 because with the 14-8 the plane would barely slow to landing speed, and i figured even if the saito pulled a higher pitch prop well it would never slow down enough for me to land the plane .

the saito seems to be popular with the guys who fly aerobatic planes so i tried the 100 to see how it compared to the tigers. i wanted to give it a good try so i worked with the saito 100 from spring to early september. when i had to recover the front of the plane i had to take the engine off so i put the st90 on it, and it went from a pain to fly to a pleasure. i may try another 4 stroke but it will only be if i can get real good cooling, which means probably a radial engine plane, and one that has flaps, which the hangar9 mustang does not have. by the way i had much of the bottom of the cowl cut away around the head of the inverted saito. i am used to providing plenty of cooling air for the st90 so i did the same for the saito that i would do for the st90, figuring that i would have way more than it needed.

from what i see for a warbird the 2 stroke is the way to go unless you like some specific thing about the 4 stroke say the engine tone due to it firing once every other revolution. there are aftermarket mufflers available for the 2 strokes that do a real nice job with their sound- the bissons do real well with the st90 i know.

ed

(in reply to CorsairJock)
       Post #: 28

RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is ... - 2/8/2004 2:36:58 PM   
CorsairJock



Posts: 1909
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From: Parchment, MI, USA
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quote:

from what i see for a warbird the 2 stroke is the way to go unless you like some specific thing about the 4 stroke say the engine tone due to it firing once every other revolution. there are aftermarket mufflers available for the 2 strokes that do a real nice job with their sound- the bissons do real well with the st90 i know.


2 stroke is the way for YOU to go. Apparently there are many others who for various reasons think 4 strokes is the way to go. And I'm not gonna tell anyone what choice they should make regarding 2 stroke vs. 4 stroke. But I am seeing a few misconceptions here regarding 4 strokes, and I repeat: each has it's advantages and disadvantages, I don't consider one better that the other, we all have our preferences.

Anybody got a 2 stroke installation that looks this good? Saito .72GK in Top Flite Corsair (engine is in lower left corner, as viewed from front).
BTW, call me stupid: I was too dumb to know anybody was calling me names (accidently or otherwise).

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< Message edited by CorsairJock -- 2/8/2004 9:53:06 AM >

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RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is ... - 2/8/2004 3:46:22 PM   
Richard L.



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quote:

ORIGINAL: rc34074

the st90 turns above this- mine run close to 11,000 on the ground with a 14-6 apc. the st also clearly unloads to a much higher rpm in the air than the saito.


Bring your st90 over to my field to see how it stacks up against my YS 91's and YS 110's. Those YS 4-strokes haul a$$ and sound good doing it.

BTW, I have seen plenty of H9 Mustangs at my field, and none had the covering burned off by the Saito exhaust.

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(in reply to rc34074)
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RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is ... - 2/8/2004 6:32:14 PM   
rc34074


 

Posts: 851
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: lexington, OH, USA
Status: offline 		the question asked was which is better, 2 stroke or 4 stroke, for the 1/7-1/8 warbirds. to me this is obviously going to be a matter of opinion, which i gave, and the reasons why. of course it also depends on what your goals are when building the plane. CorsairJock has different goals so he uses engines which he can cowl in better for a more scale look. i want the speed and economy the st90 gives. etc etc. and this is part of why i think the questions was asked. so i respect your choices just as much as i would expect you to respect mine. but it seems to me that the whole reason kmot asked his question in the first place was to get these different viewpoints and the reasons behind them. so to not give him that opinion and info would not give him the info he seems to want.

ed

(in reply to Richard L.)
       Post #: 31

RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is ... - 2/8/2004 7:09:08 PM   
CorsairJock



Posts: 1909
Joined: 4/14/2002
From: Parchment, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I think that neither Richard L. nor myself have been critical of anyone for their choice/ prefrences. I also think that both of us have been critical of some the the statements made, which we feel are incorrect., In particular, those pertaining to the assumed weight differences between 2 strokes and 4 strokes, and the assumed power differences. It appears that a few have been misinformed about these 'differences'.

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RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is ... - 2/8/2004 9:12:20 PM   
Kmot



Posts: 7743
Joined: 6/11/2003
From: Northridge, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Hey guys, the original question was not asking which is better but which is preferred and by the votes registered it is clear the the 4-stroke is preferred by a landslide.

I appreciate the responses from everyone as to why they preferred their own personal choices. The purpose of this poll was to help me decide whether I should buy a new 2-stroke or 4-stroke for the 1/8 warbird I will be getting.

I have two Saito engines. But they are both vintage. As am I. Times have changed. It appears the new generation of 4-strokes have equivalent power to the 2-strokes for the purposes of flying a warbird. And no doubt, the newest generation of 2-strokes are probably more powerful then engines of 20 years ago. Which is where my experience comes from as far as flying r/c is concerned.

In closing, I want to thank everyone who participated in this poll. It has been eye opening and informative!
-Tom

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RE: RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which... - 2/8/2004 9:55:33 PM   
mugenkidd



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From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
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quote:

Bring your st90 over to my field to see how it stacks up against my YS 91's and YS 110's. Those YS 4-strokes haul a$$ and sound good doing it.



Come on Richard....., everyone knows that YS engines are super charged, I just don't think its fair to compare a supercharged engine against a Naturally Asperated one like a ST or OS. But a high end NA 2-stroke like a dubb jett .90 would still outperform them.

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RE: RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which... - 2/10/2004 1:53:09 AM   
FlyingPilgrim



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From: Canton, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I read this post hoping it would help me make a decision on one of my (several) projects: TF AT-6. I have both a Saito .91 and a ST .75 (w/ in-cowl header/muffler), and cannot decide which to use. Saito looks great, scale looking pushrods, great sound, swing a little bigger prop. ST won't stick out the cowl at all, scale exhaust outlet, good power. After reading all the posts, I am no closer to making a firm decision. RATS!

Pilgrim

(in reply to mugenkidd)
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RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is ... - 1/25/2006 4:54:45 PM   
avops


 

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From: Pensacola, FL, USA
Status: offline 		4-stroke. I have the Saito 100 in a Hanger 9 P-40 and it runs excellent. A bit fast on landings, but excellent. Someone mentioned a muffler problem with a Hanger 9 Mustang. The fix there is use Saito's straight flex pipe muffler. I think I paid about $40 for it, but well worth it. I have no holes in my cowl, I just bent the pipe and ran it out the back of the cowl, which already had about a 3/4" gap at the back on the bottom. Looks and sounds excellent.

(in reply to rc34074)
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RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is... - 1/25/2006 5:06:19 PM   
DiscoWings



Posts: 646
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Baton Rouge, LA, USA
Status: offline 		4 Strokes are more novelty
2 Strokes are fairly easy.

I like the way 4-strokes fly, they have a more consistant power curve and have a wider torque curve; this comes in very handy when you are doing aerobatics sport & 3d.
2 strokes get your plane up to speed, once they hit top rpm 4 strokes have nothing on them, they will go go go.

I like 4 strokes better on most planes unless it is meant to be a speed demon, in that case prop it for such and fly full throttle all day long

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RE: 2-Cycle or 4-Cycle for a 1/7-1/8 Warbird? Which is... - 1/25/2006 9:07:27 PM   
carlbecker