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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> RE: Homebrew questions
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RE: Homebrew questions - 5/1/2004 7:38:40 PM   
j3x


 

Posts: 28
Joined: 12/1/2003
From: Paris, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

http://mc2.cchem.berkeley.edu/Smells/Pyridine.html

100% Pure methanol is orderless. But impurities exist during manufacture. After reading the MSDS for pyridine I note that pyridine is a toxic alcohol. I wonder if it is just a byproduct that isn't removed from fuel methanol?

Methanol has a slightly alcoholic odor when pure and a repulsive, pungent odor when in its crude form; it is difficult to smell methanol in the air at less than 2,000 parts per million (ppm) (2,622 mg/m3). (1,2)
From the US EPA website here.

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 26

RE: Homebrew questions - 5/3/2004 1:15:34 PM   
Sport_Pilot



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Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Whoever it was that thought it was a good idea to make perfumes to add to the fuel so your exhaust smells good wasn't very bright... sure it smells good... so you inhale more stuff that can rot your brain.


It's the fuel thats posioneous, not the burnt exhaust.

(in reply to FHHuber)
       Post #: 27

RE: Homebrew questions - 5/3/2004 4:24:56 PM   
FHHuber



Posts: 4931
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: gone, , USA
Status: offline 		There is ALWAYS unburned fuel in the exhaust.

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 28

RE: Homebrew questions - 5/10/2004 3:47:03 AM   
fritch1969


 

Posts: 201
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: Kutztown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		fuel grade (AAA) methanol does have a chemical smell, it will make your eye's water and sinus's burn, as far as causing blindness I have been around methanol burning race cars for most of my life and have never heard of such a thing happening to anyone in the sport. Anyone who uses coolpower %15 heli mix will know what it smells like,especially if the needle is on the fat side.

(in reply to FHHuber)
       Post #: 29

RE: Homebrew questions - 5/10/2004 5:04:34 AM   
FHHuber



Posts: 4931
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: gone, , USA
Status: offline 		What the tollerance level is for methanol... I don't know. The point is... purposefully adding something to make you inhale MORE fumes is adding to the exposure you get to a toxic chemical.

Any exposure involves SOME risk. How much risk is acceptable vs how much is unacceptable is a difficult thing to decide. OSHA has some guidelines for exposures to various chemicals... but they always list one thing: Avoid unnecessary exposure.

Another tack on the same isue...

The medical term LD-50 comes to mind. At LD-50, 50% of the people that have that exposure die despite any and all medical assistance. Some people die at lower doses... some live through higher exposure with no medical assistance.

(in reply to fritch1969)
       Post #: 30

RE: Homebrew questions - 5/10/2004 5:00:33 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7412
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		FHuber,
I take it back the exhaust is poisonous, it contains carbon monoxide. I suppose there is a small amount of methanol if run very rich, like a full four cycle, but doubt there is enough methanol to be a problem. They used to add methanol to moonshine to give it an extra kick, most people did not go blind. I would think it would take a lot like cupfuls, or pints of methanol to cause any permanent problems. I don't see anyone putting their nose right behind the exhaust to smell the perfumed exhaust, so I don't see this as a problem.

(in reply to FHHuber)
       Post #: 31

RE: Homebrew questions - 5/10/2004 8:37:55 PM   
fritch1969


 

Posts: 201
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: Kutztown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		moonshine, applejack,and grain are all forms of methanol. If enough of this is ingested it can cause blindness. A friend of mine distills the applejack variety and that is some wicked stuff, his proof tester showed 185 proof on his first run. The fellow that taught him how to distill the stuff told him to water it down because of health hazzards. I probably could have added some some oil and had apple scented fuel.
hehe

< Message edited by fritch1969 -- 5/10/2004 8:39:04 PM >

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 32

RE: Homebrew questions - 5/11/2004 3:16:03 AM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2766
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Problem with methanol, as I understand it, is that it metabolizes to formaldehyde in your body. Drinking alcohol is ethanol.

Jim

(in reply to fritch1969)
       Post #: 33

RE: Homebrew questions - 5/11/2004 5:46:07 AM   
fritch1969


 

Posts: 201
Joined: 11/22/2003
From: Kutztown, PA, USA
Status: offline 		ethanol is an alcohol-based alternative fuel

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)
       Post #: 34

RE: Homebrew questions - 5/11/2004 9:48:09 PM   
Jim Thomerson



Posts: 2766
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline 		So is methanol. Take a look at the methanol alternative fuel website. My University, Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville, now has a large ethanol alternative fuel research program. Don't know if they do anything with methanol.

Jim

(in reply to fritch1969)
       Post #: 35

RE: Homebrew questions - 5/25/2004 10:54:47 PM   
Bax


 

Posts: 11936
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		Ok, there seems to be some difficulties in definitions.

Methanol is Methyl alcohol. A one-carbon alcohol. It is poisonous! It is NOT added to any kind of beverage by sane people.

Ethanol is Ethyl alcohol. A two-carbon alcohol. It is the kind of alcohol found in any kind of alcoholic beverage. It is made from a wide variety of sources, including grain, potatoes, grapes, sugar cane, apples, and on, and on, and on. It's fermented, distilled, flavored, blended, aged, and you get the picture. Because it's easily made from grain, and can also be used as fuel, farm states want to promote it as a fuel, making a larger market for their grain.

Pure "grain" alcohol is nothing more than ethanol that's had its origin in the fermentation and distillation of some sort of grain, usully corn.

Alcohols are very useful as solvents, and there are many varieties of alcohols. Ethanol is just one very common one.

bax

(in reply to Jim Thomerson)
       Post #: 36

Will your house still be insured? - 5/27/2004 6:13:48 AM   
katipo


 

Posts: 135
Joined: 1/6/2003
From: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		I've enjoyed reading this thread since I'm getting back into mixing fuel for our club.
In the past I always used Castrol MSSR oil with good results and now I'm using CoolPower (the blue one) 100% synthetic oil. The methanol I use is 99.98% pure with virtually no smell and the nitro I use is also 99% pure and comes from VP racing fuels.

The standard sport brew is 20% oil, 70% methanol and 10% nitro. It works well and makes the engines run reliable. I will always pay a little more for the reliability.

I also make up a 20% nitro brew for those who want a little more go.

One thing we have found is that almost all Asian engines like OS, Satio, Enya, Magnum, ThunderTiger, YS, ASP, GMS etc are designed to run on and seem to like around 10% nitro.
Of cause specialist racing engines are different because they are designed to run on the fuel which is ether stated in their competition rules or gives the best performance.

One big thing to consider when making your own fuel and it’s possibly the biggest and most over looked. Will your house still be insured?
Here in New Zealand and I guess in most countries, insurance companies state a maximum allowable amount of flammable liquids that can be stored at a residential home. Here it’s no more than a total of 20 litres. That will include paint thinners, lawnmower petrol etc. So if your house burns down and they find out that you had 25 litres of methanol, 5 litres nitro and 8 litres of mixed up model fuel. You can end up getting nothing. Is it worth the risk and does it affect you?

< Message edited by katipo -- 5/27/2004 12:37:14 PM >

(in reply to Bax)
       Post #: 37

RE: Homebrew questions - 11/14/2004 6:46:23 AM   
PhilNZ



Posts: 27
Joined: 8/9/2004
From: BlenheimMarlborough, NEW ZEALAND
Status: offline 		Hi,
What is with the acetone why add this to your Fuel Mix ??? and at what quantities ?

Here in New Zealand we use a standard mix Menthanol / Castor oil ( degummed ) or castrol MSSR, Penrite Synthetic Castor Race 40, ML 70 plus Nitro.

The following is a standard mix to make 1 US Gallon

10 % Nitro = 12.80 US Oz
17% Castor Oil = 21.76 US Oz
73% Menthanol = 93.44 US Oz

http://www.birdgagesoft.com

Get WINHELI its a Fuel calculator that works out the CORRECT % to use


Some are moving away from The castor based poducts as above and switching to
KLOTZ but this has 20% castor added ,KLOTZ is a 2 /4 stroke race oil that has been adapted
for use in R/C engines

Pressed Castor Not Chemically extracted castor

Castor is used FOR @ REASONS That i can think of

1/ Lube the engine

2/ Cool the engine as pressed castor has a Flash point of 535 F

Cool Power and Omega are made by Morgan Fuels.

Cool Power is so sectretive that they don't tell you what the oil mix is made up of, but Omega
has 20% castor in it so i would use this over Cool Power as castor has pasted the time test and has better heat transfer.


Regards
Phillip

(in reply to AeroMex)
       Post #: 38

RE: Homebrew questions - 11/15/2004 12:29:03 AM   
downunder



Posts: 3105
Joined: 10/10/2002
From: Adelaide, AUSTRALIA
Status: offline 		Acetone reduces the ability of methanol to absorb water from the air (Shell A Racing fuel comes with 3% acetone). One of the guys in our club who experiments with fuels found that 5% acetone eliminates kickbacks (thrown props) with his 4 strokes.

(in reply to PhilNZ)
       Post #: 39

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