Homebrew questions (Full Version)

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dwc -> Homebrew questions (2/23/2004 4:12:18 AM)

Hello
I tried mixing a batch of homebrew for an airplane and and airboat that both have
gms .32 engines in them. I used Tommy's Karts Coolpower Medium with castor and methanol from a local racing source and Acetone from a hardware store. 18% oil, 3% Acetone and the
rest methanol. When running this mix the exhaust has a really strong bad smelling chemical
smell. It doesn't take much of breathing this exhaust to get a bad headache. I was running
various manufactures premix before and their stuff all smells fine. I was wondering if it is the Acetone that makes it smell so strong or if the oil (labeled for four strokes) might be the culprit.
The mix seemed to run ok in my airboat but on my plane I had problems getting it to run right.
I was 3Ding with it so it may be I didn't notice the problem with the airboat because I didn't need
the high speed transition so much. I had a very experienced buddy try to tune it for me when he noticed air bubbles in the fuel line. I changed fuel tubing and added a squirt of armor all and this took care of the bubbles but I am still having a problem where it will bog out in high g
3d manuvers. I know it's hard to diagnose a problem like this, but I was just wondering if
this is common with no nitro mixes and something you have to live with or maybe I need a
different oil? Also do I really need the Acetone or would it make much difference to leave it out
If this is what is causing the strong smell I may have to replace it with Nitro. Anyone know of
a good source. Thanks for any help.
Dan



FlyNBHappy -> RE: Homebrew questions (2/23/2004 9:49:59 AM)

I run a similiar mixture (20% oil, light w/castor) as you described and believe the strong smell is from the Coolpower 4-cycle oil. It does smell different than the commercially available glow fuel, but I haven't had the headache problem you've described. For my money, this Coolpower oil is the best "bang for buck" home-brew oil available. I don't know why it smells different, but I don't believe it contains anything different than what they use to make Coolpower glow fuel.

The acetone gives it a very strong smell in the mixture, but I don't notice any difference in performance with my engines. I've stop using it since.

As for GMS engines, the manual reads "recommends 10-15% nitro". I don't think GMS have the high compression for 0% nitro fuel like the European engines.

Put nitro in your fuel to make your GMS engines happy. Stay away from exhaust (or stand upwind) to help your headache.



dwc -> RE: Homebrew questions (2/23/2004 6:45:18 PM)

Thanks Addict2RC,

Good info but bad news. I was hoping the smell was from the Acetone. The price sure is good on this oil but if I get sick using it it probably isn't worth it. Maybe I'll try some Klotz, quite a bit more spendy though. I talked to my LHS about ordering Nitro. He's checking into it. Other than that I have been having a hard time finding Nitro. Seems like when I checked on Klotz's site a few weeks ago and it was available and now it isn't. I guess I could always buy some 20% from
the LHS and mix it with my homebrew.
thanks, Dan



AeroMex -> RE: Homebrew questions (2/27/2004 3:32:40 PM)

I mixed up my first gallon of homebrew yesterday[:D] 18% Klotz Syn, dash of armor all and acetone. Tested it in a .25 OS trainer WOW[X(] It started real rich and as I leaned it out it screamed!! I'll tach it tonight but my ear-dyno said maybe 500+ more rpm or so (was waiting for the piston to come out of the top!)! I was running tower sport 10% nitro 50/50 oil mix.

This will be my fuel for my new Moki 1.80, do I really need to add Castor oil to the mix ?? I have a gallon coming just for this engine, but it is a pain in the butt to get it shipped down here to Mexico where I work. I can get Klotz at the local motorcycle shop.

Charles



Sport_Pilot -> RE: Homebrew questions (2/27/2004 6:05:09 PM)

VP racing has nitro. Some other sites also sell it. Don't buy nitro or methanol from Klotz, way too expensive. Try doing a web search for racing fuel.



seagull extra -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/1/2004 8:07:00 PM)

I just bought a case of Cool Power light cart oil with castor from Tomy's as well but I haven't tried it yet. After I bought the oil I noticed that Cool Power makes cart oil for 2 strokes. I think I probably should have bought that instead. Has anybody used the 2 stroke Coolpower cart oil?



dwc -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/3/2004 6:13:24 PM)

Seagull

Where did you see the 2 stroke Coolpower oil? On Tommy's Karts website?
Does anybody know what the difference is in the 2 oils anyway?
Dan



seagull extra -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/4/2004 3:15:56 AM)

I seen the 2 stroke info on morgan fuels website. I called Tommy's to see if I could exchange the 4 stroke oil for 2 stroke but they only sell the 4 stroke oil. At least I didn't feel quite as stupid ordering the 4 stroke oil now. I e-mailed morgan and asked about burning the 4 stroke in a 2 stroke but I haven't got a reply yet. I have the feeling there is not much difference between the two oils as they are both addvertized as bieng soluble in methanal. I'm going to go ahead and try it now that I have the oil. I'm using it for a super tiger 3000 and I will be mixing it 10% oil 90% methanal.



FlyNBHappy -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/4/2004 12:55:58 PM)

Seagull,

Please let us know what Morgan's response is about their 4-stroke vs. 2-stroke oil. My guess is there is no difference (if they even respond). The two oils have the same "performance characteristics" as described on their website. IMO, any oil (natural or synthetic) that mixes with methanol qualifies as a lubricant for glow engine. I've been running their 4-stroke oil (20% volume) mixed with methanol in 5 different engines and all runs great.



seagull extra -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/22/2004 4:34:20 PM)

I have not heard back from morgan on the oil. About the smell, I noticed that methanal from differant areas smells very differant. I was just visiting a friend in Florida and he had a gallon of methanal that smelled much stronger than the metanal I buy at home. I always thought methanal was methanal but his had a very strong chemical type smell to it and the methanal I buy at home just smells like the rubbing alcohol you get at the drug store.
PS. I can buy 4gallons of methanal for $15



Sport_Pilot -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/22/2004 7:23:23 PM)

Methanol has no smell, but methanol designed to be used as fuel has and additive to make it smell. Just like natural gas doesn't smell, you smell and additive so that you know when it leaks. This is because breathing large amounts of methanol vapors can kill!



seagull extra -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/28/2004 11:06:00 AM)

Well I finally mixed up a batch of fuel. I have just rebuild my st-3000 so for my first gallon I mixed it at 15% oil but I will be cutting it to 10% for my next gallon. As for the smell, there was basically no smell at all so I think if your getting a strong odour it must be from the methanol or something else your putting in the fuel.
I was hoping to run 0% nitro in my big st as this will be much cheaper but I also tried mixing my homebrew 50/50 with some 10% nitro fuel I had around and it did seem to run better with a bit of nitro. I will try 0% again when I cut my oil back to 10% and see if I can get it to run better. It turned my 18/8 prop at 8200 rpm so I will have to buy a bigger prop, as it is supposed to be proped to around 7500rpm.



LIL-Rick -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/30/2004 2:08:57 AM)

I have an question on home brewing fuel , is it really necessary for having nitromethane in the fuel ? i can get methanol $1.63 a gallon and oil from another supplier . but no nitomethane would be costly, do to all shipping and HAZMAT charges


THanx
Rick

Should been new post sorry ..



FlyNBHappy -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/30/2004 2:46:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LIL-Rick

is it really necessary for having nitromethane in the fuel ?


THanx
Rick

Should been new post sorry ..


Nitro not need at all. Some engines (mostly chinese/taiwanese) run better with nitro, but all engines should run reasonably well without it. I run 5 different types of engines and all runs great on 0% nitro.

Nitro gives you better top end, but the extra cost isn't worth it unless you're racing.

Without nitro:
- bearings wont' likely to rust
- cheaper to homebrew
- more minutes of flying per tank

Just say NO to Nitro.



LIL-Rick -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/30/2004 3:09:43 AM)

thanx Addict2RC for the info :) just for the record its Helicopter fuel.
happy flying
Rick



FlyNBHappy -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/30/2004 7:47:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LIL-Rick

for the record its Helicopter fuel.



Rick,

More clarification on what I said earlier:

All my engines are for airplane, so I have no knowledge of Helicopter engines fuel requirements. Plus, the engines I run started its life on 0% nitro. If you have an engine that's been on 10+% nitro diet, it will require some nitro or it may run a bit rough.



LIL-Rick -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/31/2004 12:22:30 AM)

ok ill have look at the specs. on engine.. its brand new engine never run fuel in it yet.
thanx for the reply.
Rick



Vikas -> RE: Homebrew questions (3/31/2004 6:39:45 PM)

What kind of synthetic oil can be mixed with castor for good lubrication? and how much?
We do not get Klotz here. I can only get the car and bike engine oils (Castrol / Shell / etc.) but most of them do not mix with methanol. so i have to use only castor for lubrication.

thanks
Vikas



mpalermo -> RE: Homebrew questions (4/2/2004 3:26:22 AM)

Try this stuff, it is pretty cheap and this is a decent outfit.

It is made by Morgan, and seems to be a quality product.

http://www.tommyskarts.com/Cat.Oils.htm

I buy the gallon case light with castor 4 gallon case is 71 with shipping, not too bad...

Mike



POWERMASTER -> RE: Homebrew questions (4/25/2004 5:58:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sport_Pilot

Methanol has no smell, but methanol designed to be used as fuel has and additive to make it smell. Just like natural gas doesn't smell, you smell and additive so that you know when it leaks. This is because breathing large amounts of methanol vapors can kill!


Sorry to disagree with you but having worked in Lab for 13 years and we made
Methanol (Union Carbide Corp) at the plant, AAA Methanol has a fruity smell, not
strong, but there. A1 Methanol has a faint fish ordor, this is second grade Methanol.
If the odor is strong, with the fishy smell, then the product has not met specs.
Wendell



Sport_Pilot -> RE: Homebrew questions (4/29/2004 2:25:21 PM)

http://mc2.cchem.berkeley.edu/Smells/Pyridine.html

100% Pure methanol is orderless. But impurities exist during manufacture. After reading the MSDS for pyridine I note that pyridine is a toxic alcohol. I wonder if it is just a byproduct that isn't removed from fuel methanol?



MUNGAM -> RE: Homebrew questions (4/29/2004 9:49:17 PM)

Pertaining to the Morgan's 4 cycle kart oil as a 2 cycle lubricant , I spoke to Steve Morgan and this is what he had to say :

"Any of the Kart oils can be used as model fuel lubricants; the only problem that you would experience would be cosmetic. The kart oil contains an additive that is photo-reactive, when it is mixed with methanol and exposed to the sun it turns the fuel brown. Other than that the thinner the oil the more you need to use, the more you use the more nitro you’ll need to add."

Hope this help you guys. I know it made me feel better having 2 cases of the stuff....



XJet -> RE: Homebrew questions (4/29/2004 10:21:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MUNGAM
The kart oil contains an additive that is photo-reactive, when it is mixed with methanol and exposed to the sun it turns the fuel brown.


That would explain why the fuel I made with Castrol R has gone a very dark shade of brown.



FHHuber -> RE: Homebrew questions (4/30/2004 11:07:53 AM)

VP Fuels has the methanol, oil and Nitro... all from one source. The closest outlet they have for me is about 120 mi... and they have mixed custom fuel for me.

You specify what you want... they'll mix it.

Methanol is a toxic chemical that will eat your brain. One of the first signs of overexposure is blindness (permanent) Don't be running the engines in enclosed spaces at all.

Whoever it was that thought it was a good idea to make perfumes to add to the fuel so your exhaust smells good wasn't very bright... sure it smells good... so you inhale more stuff that can rot your brain.[:'(]



MUNGAM -> RE: Homebrew questions (4/30/2004 2:44:14 PM)

XJet ,

I looked on the castrol website for the "castrol R" and was unable to find it. The only thing close was the "Castrol R2" snowmobile oil. Is that what you are using? Also , what does the oil cost?



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