GAS OR METHANOL ?  
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All Forums >> Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums >> RC Fuels >> GAS OR METHANOL ?
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GAS OR METHANOL ? - 2/28/2004 3:25:52 AM   
Barrrick


 

Posts: 465
Joined: 9/25/2002
From: HOUSTON, TX, USA
Status: offline 		I have purchased the OS PEGASUS a fourstroke four cylinder horizonally opposed engine.
I am about to send it up to C&H IGNITION to update the engine to IGNITION.

Every person I ask, gives me a different answer.......

I haven't yet ASKED either C & H or CLARENCE LEE ( but I will )

ANYBODY OUT THERE care to tell me what I should use for FUEL on this ENGINE ?

GASOLINE or METHANOL/NITRO ?

IF GAS, what octane is correct ?

IF METHANOL, how much NITRO and/or OIL ?

Thanks,

RICK
       Post #: 1

RE: GAS OR METHANOL ? - 2/28/2004 11:30:08 AM   
Geistware



Posts: 12946
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: Locust Grove, GA, USA
Status: offline 		Even with spark, you will still use alcohol.
If you try to go to gas, you will have to make changes in the carb.

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RE: GAS OR METHANOL ? - 2/28/2004 2:13:46 PM   
Sport_Pilot



Posts: 7727
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Acworth, GA, USA
Status: offline 		The O rings in the carb may not be able to hold up to gas. Even if you change them it most likely will not work. Gas is not as tolerant of lean or rich mixtures and needs a more accurate carb. You may be able to fit a Walbro carb, but I doubt it would be worth it. But at least with ignition you will have more accurate timing and no worries about drowning out glow plugs.

(in reply to Geistware)
       Post #: 3

RE: GAS OR METHANOL ? - 2/29/2004 9:46:57 AM   
ZAGNUT



Posts: 2436
Joined: 2/26/2003
From: tel-aviv, ISRAEL
Status: offline 		with gas you will still need a very high % of oil as these engines have plain bearings on the rods and rely on blow-by to lube the lower end. with gas it might also run at too high a temperature, remember that methanol is an awesome coolant, gas is not.

but now that you are in total control of the ignition timing you can probably run without nitro at all. just use whatever oil content OS recommends and the balance methanol.


dave

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"I'll take the money- and you can have the rope"

(in reply to Sport_Pilot)
       Post #: 4

RE: GAS OR METHANOL ? - 3/1/2004 4:34:51 PM   
Waco Driver



Posts: 158
Joined: 1/16/2003
From: Paris, ON, CANADA
Status: offline 		While I have not run the Pegasus on spark ignition , I did run my OS 120 II twin on the CH ignition with mechanical advance for about 5 years and I believe the results would closely match those obtained with the Pegasus.

I started out using 87 oct auto fuel /Amsoil synthetic oil mixed 85/15. Both needles were extremely sensitive with about 4 clicks between too rich and too lean. I started adding methanol in increments displacing an equal amount of gasoline and when I got to 50 % methanol the high speed needle response became acceptable with about 1/3 turn between too rich & too lean. I finally ended up running 5% glo fuel for the best performance. Top rpm using spark ignition and glo ignition on 5% glo fuel was identical.

While the engine started and idled beautifully on fuel with a gasoline component, the midrange was extremely rich in spite of both needles being set as lean as possible. I replaced the airbleed carb with the Pegasus carb which is a metering type with the same venturi area and this helped the midrange slightly on gasoline fuel, and considerably on glo fuel. These carbs are metered for alcohol fuels and when you try to run gasoline fuel, a midrange mixture adjustment becomes necessary.

I played around with different advance curves starting at 4 degrees at idle and 32 degrees at WOT. Advancing the idle setting to 15degrees cured some of the midrange richness but total advance ended up around 45 degrees and detonation became a problem. Kickback on starting also became a problem with this amount of idle advance. With the later electronic advance that CH is selling, the results may be somewhat better than mine were with the mechanical advance.

One beautiful day while flying my Cub, the pulse wheel containing the magnet split and flew apart causing an instant engine failure. I landed and not wishing to waste the day, I stuck in a couple of glo plugs. Using the same 5% glofuel an immediate noticeable improvement in midrange engine operation was evident. When I got home I removed all of my spark ignition system and have returned to glo operation with no regrets.

My recommendation, forget the spark ignition, and accept the higher cost of fuel to operate this engine

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(in reply to Barrrick)
       Post #: 5

RE: GAS OR METHANOL ? - 3/4/2004 9:14:26 PM   
Bax


 

Posts: 12457
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: Champaign, IL, USA
Status: offline 		An engine originally intended for glow fuel operation will have fuel passages that are too large for gasoline operation. That's why the needle became so sensitive on wacodriver's engine. The range from too much to too little was not that much when the glow fuel carburetor was used. O.S. does not have a conversion for their engines to make them operate on gasoline.

Gasoline operation will also make the engine run hotter than glow, and you'll still need a fuel fairly rich in oil because the connecting rods don't have bearings...they're bushed, and the oil that gets to the lower-end of the engine comes past the piston rings from the upper-end.

Basically, the engine wasn't really designed for gasoline operation, and we can't give you a clue about the longevity of the engine when run on gasoline.

_____________________________

Bill Baxter, Manager Hobby Services/Futaba Service/North America
3002 N. Apollo Dr. Ste. 1 Champaign, IL 61822 USA
Service Phone: 217 398-0007
Email: hobbyservices@hobbico.com

(in reply to Waco Driver)
       Post #: 6

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