NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey  
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All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Aerodynamics >> NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey
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NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 2/23/2003 7:12:07 PM   
bertcmg


 

Posts: 48
Joined: 2/4/2003
From: CN
Status: offline 		You might want to configure your engine / rotor setup the same way as a real Osprey.

This way you must connect the two rotors together so If one engine cuts out then the other can still keep both the rotors going

or you could use a single engine in the body setup see diagram

Let me know how you make out


_______ _______
I I
---------------------------------------------
I engine I

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 51

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/3/2003 7:39:48 AM   
ND_newbie


 

Posts: 58
Joined: 2/7/2003
From: Williston, ND, USA
Status: offline 		Bert is exactly right.

In the reading I have done about the actual aircraft, both engines are tied into a transmission system that automatically transfers the load of both props to the left engine, if the right engine fails, and vice versa. I would think that this would be an absolute necessity, just to balance the lift of the engines, if they are not exactly speed synchronized, but I have to leave that theory to the aeronautical engineers.

Would the aircraft be controllable, at all, if one of the engines cut out, if no means of transferring the load was in place?

I think this will be an incredible aircraft, if it comes to fruition. Great discussion, and good luck to you, Noah!

Mitchell

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 52

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/21/2003 2:38:30 PM   
chebm


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2002
From: Ebmatingen, SWITZERLAND
Status: offline 		How does the different work goes forward?

I also try to build an Osprey for several years (I think about 5 years), but did not get any result until yet.
My solution sould be based on two 60 heli mechanics with about 1.50m rotor diameter (quite a big bird). But I encountered several problems during the study:
1) The wing load (unforunately I made a calculation error by factor 10!)
2) The tilt mechanic (at the moment it would be too heavy)
3) The mechanical coupling between both mechanics to transfer power in case of one motor failure.

With all this problems my project is still not further than the planning stage and after all what I heard so far, I think to stop my project.

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 53

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/22/2003 5:57:17 AM   
bertcmg


 

Posts: 48
Joined: 2/4/2003
From: CN
Status: offline 		why not use the tail rotor mechanics from Heli'c couplet to a single engine

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 54

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/24/2003 12:28:06 PM   
chebm


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2002
From: Ebmatingen, SWITZERLAND
Status: offline 		That's what I thought too. I also thinking of building the mechanics from scratch to cut weight. The mechanic I have now are Vario Skyfox ones.

In 1993 there was a UK modeller, who made an Osprey with one engine, which turned with the whole tilt mechanic to prevent torque problems. I think this is a good idea. Unfortunatelly he was also unable to switch from heli mode to plane mode.


Thomas

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 55

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/25/2003 8:30:18 AM   
Johng



Posts: 1817
Joined: 1/24/2002
From: Deland, FL, USA
Status: offline 		Off the top of my head, I would probably use some version of .30 size mechanics - then use a crown gear, on the main shaft to drive a cross-shaft. The crown gear would have to be quite a heavy duty one. Either that, or belt drive cross-coupling.

The wing would be built with a tubular aluminum or fiberglass or CF ( if available) spar. The cross shafting would be centered within the tube spar on bearings pressed in.

The axis of rotation of the nacelles would be concentric with this as well, allowing the powerplant bearings to be mounted to the outboard ends also.


With Li-poly batteries becoming so much more common and powerfull, this may be a good project for electric.

I'm not deep into heli's - I own an LMH. How hard would it be to modify std heli mechanics to counter-rotate?

_____________________________

John

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 56

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/25/2003 1:48:50 PM   
Gizmo3D



Posts: 199
Joined: 2/24/2003
From: Teesside, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Hi, i have been following this thread for a while now... very interesting! Unfortunetly anything clever i have to add has already been said!

Anyway, just a thought but if you wanted a slightly different subject to model then you could do the European tilt rotor aircraft. A pic is hopefully included below. I only know about this as i'm studying aerospace engineering at the university of Liverpool where they are doing some research into handling qualities of the design etc. However since its still in the design phase, i'm not so sure on the availability of 3 views (since its shape probably hasn't been finalised yet!). Looks kinda cool though huh?!

- martin

... actually RCUNIVERSE appears to be acting up at the moment so i'll post a pic later....

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 57

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/26/2003 4:22:43 PM   
Gizmo3D



Posts: 199
Joined: 2/24/2003
From: Teesside, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		Ok i'll try again...

Attachments
Click to see fullsize image.
Click for fullsize

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 58

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/26/2003 10:09:33 PM   
Unstable



Posts: 1575
Joined: 2/7/2002
From: South Bound Brook, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		now this would be a fun project to work on.

from what I understand to pull this off you need several things.

item 1: ability to rotate cells 90+ degrees in a controlled fashion.
I think the best bet for this would be having a small motor geared to each nacell with sensors and an onboard PIC controller to adjust the pitch.

item 2: independant swashplates for control during hover.
I would use two CCPM setups as this would simplify the linkages and save weight... the problem is you are going to need some serious mixing for this.

item 3: power.
I would go with two high quality motors on this. I personally wouldnt bother linking the engines if for nothing else then to save wieght. you can use regulators to match rotor speed

item 4: stability.
need gyros.. but how do you get the gyros to work with the mixing?

item 5: controls.
you are going to need the mother of all radios with mixing up the wazoo and diffrent flight modes and it seems like 10 billion channels. If I can get my friend on it we were talking about designing a REAL computer radio... IE running embeded linux with oh say about 30 sumthing channels.... I dont know if we are going to do anything with this but we know it is possible.

item 6: pilot. you need someone that can fly a heli, a plane, and is crazy enough to try this... thats easy... build it and I will be right over seriously this will be a bear to control until all the bugs are worked out. and I am sure even then... the trasition will be a balancing act. why do you think the real V-22 is a fly by wire bird.

I know there is probably simpler ways of doing it but even those would be hard to pull off if they work..


of course I could be totaly wrong on all of this :

good luck to all of you with these projects.

_____________________________

Unstable Boy
WMWA #969

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 59

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/27/2003 8:15:13 AM   
ND_newbie


 

Posts: 58
Joined: 2/7/2003
From: Williston, ND, USA
Status: offline 		Unstable,
This might lead to a completely separate thread, but to accommodate 30 or so channels, could you have your linux machine somehow connected to multiple radios (with associated frequencies, of course), and stick to maybe 10 channels each? Say radio 1 = channel 20, radio 2 = channel 30, radio 3 = channel 40, then have the three receivers in the aircraft? It would be a major drain, with plenty of weight required, that's for sure. Or is it possible to actually create 30 discrete channels within a given frequency?

From the point of view of a computer programmer, this sounds like a fascinating project.

Mitchell Schaff

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 60

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/27/2003 12:17:19 PM   
chebm


 

Posts: 14
Joined: 10/8/2002
From: Ebmatingen, SWITZERLAND
Status: offline 		I think you don't need too much channels from your transmitter. My idea is to build up a small computer, which mixes the different channels in the plane, also taking account of the gyros.
It's like fly by wire. On the transmitter you can fly as usual.

For the roation of the tilt mechanic, I think one or two strong servos should work.

Thomas

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 61

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/27/2003 3:54:23 PM   
Cactus.



Posts: 6138
Joined: 12/19/2001
From: CamborneCornwall, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		theres a plan for a plne in the UK with twin 15 that rotate to slow the landing, not 90 degrees tho.. it uses a single servo on a bell crank.
as for complicated PC tranmitters. i hear the Multiplex evo's have a great mixing system, you arnt limited to just mix this to that, you can mix something, then add something ON TOP of it, and keep doing that, so as you move the nacells, the pitch could change, prop speed, elevator, and CofG changer, all sorts, just on one mix. ask HarryC about this.

_____________________________

My half dead website www.philsrcworld.fsnet.co.uk new site coming soon.
Redruth & District model flying club www.rcflye

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 62

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 3/28/2003 10:00:41 PM   
Unstable



Posts: 1575
Joined: 2/7/2002
From: South Bound Brook, NJ, USA
Status: offline 		my friend is a computer programer and we were talking about RC stuff and he started banging on his calculator and figured that with 1024 resolution in a PCM type mode he can get about 20 or so full function channels and still have a decent reaction time on the servo (forgot the time span between updates he was talking about)

now if you take one of those channels that is 10 bits of info and split it into "on - off" channels you get 10 channels that can be used for retracts, bomb drops, lights, etc.

we were looking into "computer on a chip" tech and can probably make something that has almost infinite mixes. but at the cost of being a royal pain to program (but thats ok, we are not after the normal consumer market here, this is for fanatical tech freaks like ourselves)

the RX would be a special made system, probably with a similar "computer on a chip" proc on board.

all of this would be running linux as we dont want a blue screen in the middle of a torque roll

next time I see him I will have to bug him about acually doing something with this, maybe even getting the equipment for it.

_____________________________

Unstable Boy
WMWA #969

(in reply to Noah-Moore)
       Post #: 63

NEED HELP!!! Scratch-building a V-22 Osprey - 5/20/2003 1:39:44 AM   
vtol_guy


 

Posts: 897
Joined: 1/13/2003
From: Driffield, UNITED KINGDOM
Status: offline 		well im about to start building a dynavert using a humnble 6 channel radio

my p