Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (Full Version)

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Dale Gribble -> Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/11/2004 2:49 AM)

So, I just finished gallon #2 in my Maxx over the weekend. I make it a point to go through the motor after each gallon to-

a) check the compression and look for any damage or problems
b) read the head, sleeve and piston for running condition and color

Now keep in mind, my operating temps have not changed, I tune the truck to maintain 220-230 at all times, and I have a good temp gun to confirm that. So, even though temps have changed, the motor's essential operation or temps has not.

I ran 1 complete gallon of Top Fuel for Tank 1. When I pulled the motor apart, it literally looked brand spanking new. You wouldn't be able to tell by looking at it it had a gallon through. I was pretty impressed.

Now, after gallon 2 of Blue Thunder Sport. The head, and piston top are dark brown and there are minor deposits on the piston. It is a noticable difference.

So, the engine didn't change, the way I run the engine didn't change, and I didn't mod the motor one bit- the only thing that changed was the fuel. I have to conclude the fuel doesn't burn as clean or thoroughly as the Top Fuel, leaving unburnt deposits and discoloring. I think the blend and additive to protect from overheating is part of the problem (z whatever).

I have run 2 .21 size motors, one on Trinity Monster HP, the other on Odonnells, and 2 .15 motors, one on Top Fuel only and one on Top Fuel/Blue Thunder (2.5 maxx). This is the first time I have ever seen this. The other motors are as clean as a whistle upon inspection.

This is the first time I have seen a concrete reason to probably not continue using a fuel.

I have had good luck with Trinity, Odonnell and Top Fuel so far. I will not use Blue Thunder again.



Sypro -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/11/2004 3:00 AM)

thanks i have about a half gallon of 2 year old blue thunder, the question is now is what to do with it? some thing that involves fire



drdenny -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/11/2004 3:28 AM)

Yeah, good answer!



allen0622 -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/11/2004 3:45 AM)

I've heard that Blue Thunder was garbage. I have a 2.5 so I stick with what's made for it, but it's pricey. If I get another motor(non-2.5) I'll have to look into other fuel options. You know, I'm on my 3rd gallon and I've never taken the motor apart. I would like to now that you mention it. is there anything I should know or anything to be careful with, or anything to remember when putting it back together? That I should be aware of?



Dale Gribble -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/11/2004 7:45 PM)

Here are some pointers-

DISASSEMBLY

Take your time and take it apart carefully first and foremost. Second, cleanliness is KEY!!!

Use compressed air, nitro cleaner, or carb cleaner and clean up the motor pretty good before you get started.

Remove the air filter assembly
Remove the carb (loosen set screw on side of crank case)
Inspect lower and upper carb silicon o-rings. If they don't look 100% brand new, toss em, and buy a carb rebuild kit ($4.00)
Set carb aside
Remove head mounting bolts
Remove head (Be careful not to lose copper gasket when you remove the head!!!)
Remove rear manifold bolts
Remove rear manifold
Inspect rear manifold o-ring for any damage. Replace if not 100% perfect.
Remove EZ start or pull start system. Go ahead and soak the one way bearing from the starter in denatured alcohol.
Remove the backplate
Inspect backplate o-ring. Replace if not perfect.
Remove E-clip holding clutch bell onto crankshaft
Remove Clutch bell- there is a washer there in front of the bearings. Don't lose it!
Remove Clutch (slide off of posts of flywheel)- note direction of clutch for reassembly
Use vice grips, gently lock onto flywheel- loosen flywheel nut (8 or 9mm I believe)
remove flywheel nut
remove vice grips
CAREFULLY pry flywheel off of crankshaft with a flat blade screwdriver. It will come easily with gentle pressure. Don't force it.
Remove flywheel and flywheel collar
This is important. Get a plastic (never metal) rod (pen, body mount) anything that isn't metal or can mar the sleeve.
Use the plastic rod and gently push the sleeve up from the bottom at the backplate access. If you use a screwdriver, you can damage the sleeve, that can damage the piston, and you have caused more damage then good.
Work the piston/conn rod carefully off the crankshaft and remove from the top
Remove the crankshaft

Voila, your motor is in pieces!!!



Deandome -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/11/2004 7:57 PM)

I'm kinda intrigued by this stuff I read about in a RCCA car test (I think the new OFNA PCR RTR buggy, which I WANT!!).

Sidewinder Backyard Basher http://morganfuel.com/sidewinder.htm

Sounds like a company that really cares about fuel...ONLY! They say they use THE best lubricants & nitromethane (if you take their word!), and it just sounds like the kinda "botique" product I like to try (like the Aerostick CF turnbuckles).

Anyone running this stuff? For my 2.5 (and/or the .21 smallblock I might get when it's problems are sorted out), would I want the 16% or 18% lubricant blend??

Dean



Dale Gribble -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/11/2004 8:14 PM)

ASSEMBLY

CLEAN EVERYTHING THOROUGHLY!!! I cannot stress this enough. I use on off the shelf carb cleaner from an auto parts store.

Clean the crankcase again and again until you are sure there isn't a spec of dirt. Compressed air is VERY helpful. Clean the crankcase bearings thoroughly as well.

I would say carb cleaner + compressed air is the best combination for cleaning.

DURING REASSEMBLY, tighter is not always better. Do not overtorque fasteners. All fasteners should be tight and snug. they do not require excess or even moderate force to fasten well. You will be pretty upset if you break a fastener in the block and have to tap and dye it to get it out.

GENEROUSLY apply after run oil to the crancase bearings. I basically fill the bearing cases up with as much after run oil as they can hold. Work the bearings by hand to distribute the oil well.
Clean the crankshaft as mentioned above
GENEROUSLY apply after run oil to the cranshaft where it rolls on the bearings.
Install the crankshaft
Manually roll the crankshaft to distribute the oil around the bearings and crankshaft.
Clean the Pistion and conn rod assy
Put a thin coat of after run oil around the entire sidewall of the pistion
Drop some after run oil drops in the the wrist pin / piston junction
Drop some after run oil onto the conn rod- cranshaft bushing
Carefully slide the piston down into the crankshaft
NOTE NOTE - The piston has a cut out for the CRANKSHAFT!!!! IF IT IS INSTALLED INCORRECTLY, IT WON'T RUN and MAY DAMAGE YOUR MOTOR
The piston should go in with the cutout side towards the front of the motor. This will make sense to you, because you will see the crankshaft will hit the piston if the piston is installed incorrectly
Put a light coat of after run oil throughout the sleeve
Reinstall the sleeve, and carefully realign the piston, so the sleeve seats fully into the crankcase.
Put a light coat of after run oil on the backplate orange o-ring - 360 degree coverage. This promotes a good seal.
Clean and reinstall the cooling head. Make sure the copper gasket is installed.
I think it's a good idea to replace the glow plug once per gallon of gas. I use an OS A8 or A3
Tighten the cooling head fasteners in an x-pattern to get a nice even seat on the crankcase.
Reinstall the backplate - It make take some work to realign the starter shaft with the crankshaft. Take your time.
Use light blue threadlock on the backplate fasteners
I have seen the motor will leak slightly on the ez-start or pull start to backplate junction. I use a thin coat of automotive gasket maker RTV around the EZ/start or pullstart to ensure a tight seal.
Put a light coat of after run oil on the header o-ring. Again, promotes a good seal.
Reinstall the header.
Reinstall the flywheel collar, and the flywheel. Don't worry about pressing the flywheel on- the nut will even it for you.
Again, hold the flywheel with some vice grips, and tighten the flywheel nut. I use some blue threadlocker on the shaft.
Reinstall the clutch (correct orientation- don't install backwards)
Reinstall clutch bell (don't forget washer)
Reinstall e-clip
At this point, it is up to you whether you want to pull the carburator apart or not to clean it. I don't.
Put a light coat of after run oil on the carb o-ring gaskets (top and bottom)
Reseat and realign the carburator, and snug carb collar back down.

Clean the air filter, and air filter assembly, and you are as good as new!

This works for me everytime!!!



slodsm -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/11/2004 10:48 PM)

Dale, all it is is the deposits by the oil, it stains things. Nothing adverse is happening to your engine. I ran BT for two years when it was all my lhs carried. People were buying so much I was sure to get fresh fuel cause he had to restock all the time. Granted my internals were cleaner color wise on MH and sidewinder but no ill affects with BT. I ran many engines to their deaths on it after many gallons.



GVFD29 -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/11/2004 10:49 PM)

Oil = Good.



GVFD29 -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/12/2004 12:20 AM)

I like thr Traxxas fuel because it makes it easier to see in the fuel pickup line. I use trinity BTW.



allen0622 -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/12/2004 4:20 AM)

DG, I really appreciate the time you took to write all that information out, I'm priniting it out as I type. I think it could be useful to alot of people. Should maybe even cut a paste it into it's own thread. You're one of the reasons I enjoy forums. Thanks again for all that writing.[:)]



SiLPHEED -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/20/2004 2:50 PM)

Usually, after I am finished with each run and the engine cools down, I squirt some WD40 into the carb and crank the engine. Even brand new, unbroken-in engines will start easily with WD40.

I've tried Red Alert, Trinity Monster HP and right now I use Blue Thunder, all in 20% nitro content. I cannot say that I notice a major difference between the three, other than their color. Just to be sure, I tasted each of them and none of them have the taste of the refreshing fruity goodness they APPEAR to be.



GVFD29 -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/20/2004 2:52 PM)

25% makes a difference.



SiLPHEED -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/20/2004 3:19 PM)

Yeah, because it has 5% more nitro...I don't think color affects performance too much.



T-mAxX-2.5 -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/20/2004 10:12 PM)

my maxx pass 9 gallon of blue thunder without any overall and my piston shiny!



GVFD29 -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/20/2004 10:30 PM)

Do you use afterrun oil?



T-mAxX-2.5 -> RE: Observations- Blue Thunder vs. Top Fuel (20%) in 2.5 (3/20/2004 11:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GVFD29

Do you use afterrun oil?

yeap(WD-40)



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