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cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/15/2004 11:31:25 PM   
ZondaC12


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Guilderland, NY, USA
Status: offline 		hey, my friend has a lakehouse on schroon lake here in ny and has an old but fast electric boat and i want one too. i wont have too many chances to get up there this summer, but enough that i want a cheap boat to use in the lake. i found one called the Pro Boat Sundancer, for like $150. its RTR. http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=PRB2100 i need pretty much everything but the motor, batt's, charger (as in part of the boat itself). it reminds me alot of his boat, which is very simple, its like 13 yrs old, an MRP, nothing on it about what model. anyway its simple, just a very hollow hull, no extra stuff, a 550 direct drive to the prop, small msc and receiver, and this sundancer looks to be setup pretty much the same exact way, and i mean the stuff is in the same places, motor mount is a simple circled band that goes over the motor, screw on either side, and its like a sport-runabout/yacht style and i like that too, his boat is like half cabin cruiser-half racing boat. and i have this 6v motor i got out of a toro weedwacker from like 7 years ago, motor in fine condition, runs great, sounds great. anyway, i found this neat place called www.offshoreelectrics.com, and they have a ton of motors there, and i compared dimensions and this must be a 700. so im really excited cuz itll be mad powerful, and it would be awesome in a boat. i hooked a multimeter up to measure amps in the circuit and quickly touched the wires i hooked up to my 6 cell batt and the current jumped to 43 amps for a split second and back down to like 3. i think on that link i posted they mention the amperage of the esc it comes with, would that handle my 700? if not, back to what i said before, is there a kit boat out there for this price (preferably less) that has the hull, prop and drive system, esc, actually dont need reciver, i have a sportmaxx and i could get another traxxas 3 channel reciver and crystal and use my transmitter for both vehicles, and without motor? is this even a feasible project? is this too powerful? id like it to be a boat about that size, my friend's boat is that size and i like that size, and i think that would make it very fast with this motor, but im thinking in terms of like propeller walk, like it spins too fast and the back end moves to the side? do most rc boats have like a rudder/keel sorta thing thats fixed in a straight position so it could prevent propeller walk?

thx to all who help (and even bother to read this, im sorry i just like to be detailed)

< Message edited by ZondaC12 -- 3/15/2004 6:33:06 PM >
       Post #: 1

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/16/2004 7:51:06 PM   
pompebled


 

Posts: 1966
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Sneek, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Hi Zonda!

Pfffff, that's a long read.....

Just judging by the size of the boat you mentioned (25inch) a 700 size motor is no problem,

BUT: this type of RTR boats have an interior designed for the 500-600 series motors, the larger 700 will not fit without considerable alterations.
If the boat you have in mind has a subsurface-drive (and it has), fitting a 700 motor means a minor rebuild: taking out motormount and reinforce the, hull with glass and epoxy resin, making a motormount for the 700, preferably with a new propshaft, buying 6-8 cells, an ESC to match....
Only to see the rather narrow hull turn over the first time you hit the "gas".....

Reading the article, the suplied radiogear does not really look the part, if the BEC does not work properly, why bother providing it?

Much more fun to run is the ABC Fighter 550, it has a surface drive (roostertail!) a similar 550 motor, but a much wider beam, which makes refitting it with your 700 motor not sooo very difficult, running on 6-8 cells should not be a problem.

All these hulls are ABS, so reinforcing may be required to prevent the boat from tearing itself apart with the powerfull 700.

I tuned a Fighter 550 for the son of a friend, and it ran great, until he forgot that the receiver batteries needed charging as well, subsequently he lost control and reduced the boats length by running it head on into a wall...

If you have more questions, let me know.

Jan.

< Message edited by pompebled -- 3/16/2004 7:58:00 PM >

(in reply to ZondaC12)
       Post #: 2

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/16/2004 8:39:46 PM   
ZondaC12


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Guilderland, NY, USA
Status: offline 		alright cool thanks, some good info.

i laughed when i read "rather narrow hull turn over" i can just see that, the boat spinning around, LOL.

but about the subsurface/surface piercing drive, is there disadvantages/advantages to each? im guessing from what u said subsurface drive will cause it to turn over? and about the fighter 550, all i can seem to find is a rtr version. is there also a kit or not?

thanks again!

Zonda

< Message edited by ZondaC12 -- 3/16/2004 3:46:04 PM >

(in reply to pompebled)
       Post #: 3

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/16/2004 9:24:55 PM   
pompebled


 

Posts: 1966
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Sneek, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Hi Zonda,

The 700 motors have a substantial torque indeed, I've seen my mono 2 (12 cells, 9,6V 700neodym motor, 45 propshop prop) making barrelrolls at full speed due to the torque of that motor, my racing "colleagues" didn't appreciate it, however...

In general a boat with a surface piercing drive is faster than the same boat with subsurface drive, also in general a subsurface driven boat will make narrower turns than a boat with a SPD (surface piercing drive).
Because of the steeper angle of the propshaft, the lifting properties of the prop will affect the boat more than a SPD.

The ABC Fighter 550 is only available as a kit, at least over here.

Several guys run the boat with a hot carmotor(watercooled!), a decent (and smaller) prop from the Graupner K-series (36-37,5mm) and replace the stock rudder(blade) with a wedge shaped aluminium rudder. It takes a very fast shuttertime to avoid blurring the picture when it tears by the camera.

Greetings, Jan.

< Message edited by pompebled -- 3/16/2004 9:25:57 PM >

(in reply to ZondaC12)
       Post #: 4

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/16/2004 11:34:36 PM   
ZondaC12


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Guilderland, NY, USA
Status: offline 		well i did manage to find one place that had it as a kit, it was abc-rc-hobby.com. i have a question though about the beam--this site said it has a 7 inch. beam. the sundancer actually has an 8 inch bea, according to horizon hobby. so wouldnt it be just fine? or is the fighter's hull flatter, and the sundancer like a deep vee? i also just dont care too much for how plain the fighter is, i dont think it looks good, and maybe this is stupid but i like that look, of the yacht/sport noat/cruiser thing, e.g. the sundancer, traxxas villian boats, etc. so i dont know about this. maybe i just need a bigger boat. maybe if sometime i could come across a villain that someone converted to single prop or something and that would work good for this.

but thanks a million for your advice, now i know other things to consider i didnt know before. i never gave thought to the possibility of the hull turning over

(in reply to pompebled)
       Post #: 5

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/17/2004 1:57:03 PM   
pompebled


 

Posts: 1966
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Sneek, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Hi Zonda!

I think you've hit the nail on the head, the Fighter is a small Crackerbox and should not be driven with the ridiculous canopy provided with the kit, but with a retro deck with a V8 and the crew way in the rear.

But if you like the deep vee better, go with that one!
I would go for a refit with the 700 and SPD, to avoid the torque issue.

If you've the time and skill, scratchbuilding your own hull is another option.

Let me know how the story goes.

Greetings, Jan.

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< Message edited by pompebled -- 3/17/2004 1:57:52 PM >

(in reply to ZondaC12)
       Post #: 6

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/17/2004 4:22:08 PM   
pompebled


 

Posts: 1966
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Sneek, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Or wrap this around your 700 motor.

Add a deck to your liking (runabout).
I can mail you the plan if you like.

Jan.

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< Message edited by pompebled -- 3/17/2004 4:23:27 PM >

(in reply to ZondaC12)
       Post #: 7

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/17/2004 9:27:00 PM   
ZondaC12


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Guilderland, NY, USA
Status: offline 		WHOA thats awesome: man thats gotta take some skillz to make that, that might be a little extreme for me.

i might see if i can do what you suggested about the deep vee one--make that an SPD. that sounds easy enough for me.

well, thanks again, this is just plans for "down-the-road" its still snowing here, got awhile to wait until spring im afraid man im sick of winter. but ill definitely look for this thread and update when i do actually get to this.

Zonda

(in reply to pompebled)
       Post #: 8

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/17/2004 10:32:58 PM   
pompebled


 

Posts: 1966
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Sneek, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Extreme, not really, it takes a jigsaw, some plywood, glue, sandpaper, patience and a lot of time. The skills required you get doing it.
This plan was so basic, I built three other boats, before I trusted myself to start on this one.

Try building it in cardboard (scaled down) first gives you an idea of the work involved.
In the gallery are some building pictures of my current project, a 52" deep vee, powered by a 25cc Homelite.

My average to finish a boat like this (next to working and having a family) is about four years. If you count the hours I really worked on it, maybe two to three weeks, the setting of the glue and the drying of the paint takes up more time than the actual building.

Should you ever need the plan and building instructions, let me know.

BTW: building instructions, on a german forum a guy did the same thing you are planning: refitting a ABS hull with a 700 motor, reinforcing it with glass and epoxy resin. There are a lot of pictures in the thread, so (your) knowledge of the german language is not required....
Use the search function for: "Trimmung", on: www.rc-raceboats.de/forum.
The boat he refitted is a Carson Hydro 8 RTR.

Greetings, Jan.

< Message edited by pompebled -- 3/17/2004 10:41:40 PM >

(in reply to ZondaC12)
       Post #: 9

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/18/2004 12:29:18 AM   
ZondaC12


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Guilderland, NY, USA
Status: offline 		alright i think i found the right thread, it was titled "trimmung" and there were pics but they were attachments so you cant see them unless youre registered there

(in reply to pompebled)
       Post #: 10

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/18/2004 12:59:15 AM   
ZondaC12


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Guilderland, NY, USA
Status: offline 		oh one other thing--i forgot to mention it but that offshoreelectrics place had a boat i liked--the aquajet one. i was looking at the options and apparently it can hold up to a 775! but theres an option to get it as a kit (what i want) and with a 550 instead, and thats like $140!!! that would be perfect IMO. what do you think of it? maybe i could even email whoever runs that site and see if they could sell it to me without the motor, and id save even more $$.

(in reply to ZondaC12)
       Post #: 11

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/18/2004 11:58:49 AM   
pompebled


 

Posts: 1966
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Sneek, NETHERLANDS
Status: offline 		Hi Zonda,

I'm registered there, if you want the pictures, let me know.

The Cen Aqua Jet 775 is a nice boat indeed, the 700 in the set is another version than yours, it can run on up to 16 cells!
If you try that with your 6V 700, it will go very fast, for a very short time.....

On the other hand, if you can buy the boat without the 700 motor you can run your motor on 8 cells (watercooled!), thus saving money on cells and having a lighter boat, which runs longer (and probably just as fast).

Or you buy the 550 version, and order the hopup parts for the 700 version. (motormount, ESC, among other things)

If you do so, also get the rudder with the waterpickup (normally on the IC version), and a couple of spare flex couplings (they tend to wear out rather quickly, when you accelerate abruptly or hit something in the water) and, if you don't fancy winding it yourself, an aluminium cooling coil and an outlet.

I'm sure, you can work out some kind of deal with Steven Vaccaro.


Greetings, Jan.

P.S.: (having thought about it all afternoon) If you are willing to spend up to $140 on an ABS hull, you might also consider getting a REAL raceboat from Hopf, the Bavarian Master/manufacturer/suplier of just about every prizewinning boat in Europe, multiple champion himself, incredible fast boats at reasonable prices, and from time to time, unbeatable special offers.
And of course, all hulls hand lay up in epoxy resin (not that seaweed reinforced crap you sometimes encounter on eBay......)!

Take a look at www.hopf-modelltechnik.de in the shop you'll find all kinds of goodies, for instance the Gozilla XXL Set, a complete set of parts minus the radio gear, (ESC?) and batteries (which he can suplie too, ofcourse) for 129 Euro. Or the somewhat cheaper Sigma EVO Mono 2 (currently the fastest mono 2 around) for 119 Euro.
Running one of these boats will get your friend crying in your propspray and yourself shaking with adrenaline at the controlls....

I realize that the shipping costs could make it far too expensive, but there may be a way around that, at least partly, as the MHZ dealer in the US is considering (or at least was the last time we mailed) importing Hopf boats.
When I get home, I'll mail him to ask.

Needless to say, my son (Dutch mono 2 Champion 2002) and I (runner up) run several Hopf boats (among others).

< Message edited by pompebled -- 3/18/2004 4:33:46 PM >

(in reply to ZondaC12)
       Post #: 12

RE: cheap boat (rtr or kit could be fine) to put a 700 in? - 3/18/2004 8:36:48 PM   
ZondaC12


 

Posts: 149
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Guilderland, NY, USA
Status: offline